The god who burns people alive for eternity

@kellyjay said
This mythical lady ever lie, cheat, steal, gossip, hate anyone, harbor hateful or desires in her heart, I assume she didn't indulge into any of the more gross sins, was she perfect in all respects to every normal inclination all other people have from the moment she was born until she became a little old lady?

@philokalia said
You could spend your life studying the basic concepts within the Bible and never really finish. And sure, I am a fool, I do not know enough about it.

@fmf said
One has to bear in mind that Philokalia is a recent convert to Christianity. That's why he absolutely totally and utterly nails his underpants to the torturer god ideology and yet, under scrutiny from the likes of you and divegeester, his answers to questions about the justification for it is either regurgitated dogma or answers along the lines of "I don't know", "I don't know that", "I don't know the answer yet", "I will look it up and come back and tell you"... etc.

@philokalia said
OK, wait, so what is the question that I am missing?

@kellyjay said
[youtube] V06abnj--LE [/youtube]

A bit over 5 minutes, why is the way to God so narrow.
This video is part of "Answering the Biggest Objections to Christianity," a live Q&A with author and scholar Dr. Ravi Zacharias on April 12, 2015 at Christ Community Chapel.

@philokalia said
I am sorry, but I spend the time I do get with my spiritual father discussing things pertinent to me, and there is not enough time to throw out questions that I do not find relevant to that.

@philokalia said
Should a person who consistently does the right thing receive happiness and other forms of reward for their long-standing commitment to the right?

Should a person who consistently does the wrong thing be punished?

@philokalia said
The good inherit eternal life and the Kingdom of God, and those who reject God receive punishment for eternity for their rejection of the ultimate good, and their failures to live up to the good.
It's a hard conclusion to reach for some people because it requires some thinking outside of the box and meta-reasoning.

@philokalia said
FMF, you have gotten the answer several times now across several pages.

[quote]Just as how we reward those who have properly grown to love Christ and be bearers of Christ with an eternal reward, the reward of eternal life in the Kingdom of God, because their achievement is of infinite worth, God has decided that the punishment for rejecting salvation and God is also on ...[text shortened]... blamed for this answer and previous one's ,though, because FMF kept the precise question a mystery.

Would somebody kindly let me know as soon as either sonship, KellyJay, SecondSon or philokalia manage to actually answer the challenge in the OP - thanks.

In summary:

The teaching of eternal suffering as detailed in the book of Revelation shows that the loving Jesus will be in hell overseeing the eternal burning alive of non Christians.

True or false, and why?

@FMF brings us two new questions:

"Why fire?"
"Why torture?"

The answer: God manifests Himself as fire -- this blip is perhaps recognizable from other times when we have discussed this topic:

Here is a description of heaven/hell that is very much from within the Eastern Christian concept. This does not fit quite exactly, but it is very illuminating and is tangentially related.

"The uncreated glory, which Christ has by nature from the Father, is paradise for those who self-centered and selfish love has been cured and transformed into unselfish love. However, the same glory is uncreated eternal fire and hell for those who have chosen to remain uncured in their selfishness."

From this point of view, therefore, we Orthodox Christians agree with the most liberal people in the world. No message can be more liberal than that of the Holy Fathers of the Church, who not only stress that, 'Son, we'll all go to the same place', as an old lady told me, but also emphasize that God loves everyone equally: the damned and the saved, the glorified and the saints, Angels and devils, good and bad, prostitutes and chaste...God loves all human beings equally, He loves everyone without distinction. From God's point of view, God saves everyone. He wants the salvation of all human beings, and he has preordained salvation for all.

How do we know this? Because even Hell is salvation (the human being is preserved) and Hell is a way of making perfect, but it is Hell and not Paradise. Because the one who is damned is incapable of progress, he is unable to accept progress towards perfection. Why? Because his conscience has been hardened, his heart has grown hard. He remains so egoistic and self-centered that his personality cannot develop from selfishness to unselfishness. Since he cannot develop anymore, he is perfected in his selfishness. Even Hell is evil for him. Although it is not punishment from God's point of view, it is punishment from the human point of view.

In our own Holy Tradition, the human being is eternally advancing to higher stages of perfection. For us history never stops There is the history of the saints and there is also the eternal history of man. The fact that Christ was Resurrected with His Body and that Christ is fully human until now and for ever and ever means that Christ, His Body and His human nature, is part of history. Has His Body not acted continually until this day? There has been a succession of actions; the energies of the Body of Christ have not ceased. So the Body of Christ is an inseparable part of history, which is a guarantee that history is eternal. History will not come to a halt; although a number of theologians who believe in Plato say nowadays that history will cease. No, history will not come to a halt. Why will history not cease? Because the Body with which Christ was resurrected will exist for ever, and we shall be resurrected with bodies. We shall not be merely souls in paradise. We shall be complete human beings.

Then Westerners speak about Paradise and Hell from the standpoint of justice. This is sociological interpretation of eternal life...

"...Holy Scripture uses the words 'light' and 'dark cloud' to describe the state of the just, and the words 'fire' and 'darkness' to describe the state of sinners. We know, however, that the light is different from the dark cloud that covers the light. And fire is the opposite of darkness, because fire chases away darkness and illuminates the surroundings.

This shows that there are not created words to express uncreated reality absolutely. The Eternal Divine Light and the Eternal Life are uncreated. They are the energy of God that is experienced by human beings as illuminating or burning energy, depending on their spiritual state.

"All human beings will see the glory of God, and from this point of view they have the same end. Everyone will certainly see the glory of God, the difference being that, whereas the saved will see the glory of God as sweetest light without evening, the damned will see the same glory of God as consuming fire, as fire that will burn them. It is a true and predictable fact that we shall all see the glory of God. Seeing God, that is to say, His glory and His Light, is something that will happen whether we want it or not. The experience of this Light, however, will be different for the two categories.

By the way, this is another one of those “checkmate questions.”

Because if they answer YES, they are admitting that the whole morally abhorrent and ludicrous imagery of Jesus being in there overseeing the flesh melting carnage is acceptable, literal and true.

And if they answer NO, then the scriptures has to be metaphorical and their whole revolting dogma falls apart and they have to relinquish eternal suffering.

@divegeester said
Oh dear, you now seem to be defending justification by WORKS.

You don’t know what you’re talking about philokalia

@philokalia said
@FMF brings us two new questions:

"Why fire?"
"Why torture?"

The answer: God manifests Himself as fire -- this blip is perhaps recognizable from other times when we have discussed this topic:

Here is a description of heaven/hell that is very much from within the Eastern Christian concept. This does not fit quite exactly, but it is very illuminating and is tangen ...[text shortened]... ugh, maybe somethign more powerful like this can have an impact. IDK. Just throwing it out there. ^^

@divegeester said
By the way, this is another one of those “checkmate questions.”

Because if they answer YES, they are admitting that the whole morally abhorrent and ludicrous imagery of Jesus being in there overseeing the flesh melting carnage is acceptable, literal and true.

And if they answer NO, then the scriptures has to be metaphorical and their whole revolting dogma falls apart and they have to relinquish eternal suffering.