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18 Sep 19
1 edit
@philokalia saidSpecifics of what you have answered in relation to the OP:
I actually covered why fire on page 30:
https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/spirituality/the-god-who-burns-people-alive-for-eternity.182510/page-30#post_4100706
I have actually also answered the far more general question of why eternity at many different points -- one of them included in the above post.
How about you try to answer post #4100706 and we ...[text shortened]... to debate the content that I have provided in any of these posts, how am I the one "slinking" away?
Q. Will people be burned eternal in hell? - yes, adamant, certain, beyond doubt
Q. Will the loving Jesus, the Lamb be overseeing it? - don't know - waffle about groups and types of people in hell (despite Revelation stating it the Lamb will be present)
Q. Why do people go to hell? - don't know
Q. Who sends people to hell? - they send themselves - (hilarious)
So hell it literal to satisfy your squalid desire to see people who disagree with you burn. But the rest of Revelation's notes on hell is all open to question and the thoughts of St Nigel of Nowhere.
18 Sep 19
@philokalia saidYou have been making assertions about what your religious dogma tells you. This is pure "It is because it is" stuff.
You apparently can't argue, but can only ask questions, and even when you think my arguments do not reach the threshold, you only repeat the question.
You have not been presenting an argument to morally justify the punishment of torture, nor have you presented any argument that contends that torturing the little old lady has a discernably moral purpose.
The likes of 'It's evil because it is evil', 'the Bible says what the Bible says', or torture is justified because you have mentioned "free will" and "balance" or the name of some saint or other - and all the other 'It is because it is' stuff - is evasion and not an answer to the question. That is why I have been repeating the questions.
18 Sep 19
@philokalia saidIf you think you have morally justified the torture pf the little old lady for eternity and morally justified and stated a moral purpose for continuing to torture her in, say, 20,000,000 years or 500,000,000,000 years, then why are you still posting?
If you are unwilling to debate the content that I have provided in any of these posts, how am I the one "slinking" away?
If you think you have done enough, just withdraw. I may think it is - and call it out as - just slinking away, but you don't have to agree that that is what you doing.
If you think you can hold your head up high with regard to the morality of what you believe with regard to the little old lady, why not just hold your head up high?
18 Sep 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidNothing about her could be real either; there are no such women let alone billions of them. God has poured out knowledge of Him so none of us will be with an excuse towards Him. He will judge us justly with what we know, acknowledge Him here or not. We can suppress knowledge of Him here, but what we know will be on full display during Jesus' Christ judgment all the secrets of man will on display in full view of everyone that day.
Any of those things warrant eternal suffering?
And nothing mythical about it. There are billions of such woman and men that your God has apparently sent to eternal torment.
18 Sep 19
1 edit
@kellyjay saidIsn't the notion that you being convinced by the supposed revelation of your God figure means that the revelation you believe in is sufficient for every other human being too - isn't that just plain narcissistic on your part?
God has poured out knowledge of Him so none of us will be with an excuse towards Him.
18 Sep 19
@kellyjay saidWhy is not on "full display" now? If people knew that your God existed and knew what His rules were, how would that affect "free will"? People could still just choose to ignore those rules.
an suppress knowledge of Him here, but what we know will be on full display during Jesus' Christ judgment all the secrets of man will on display in full view of everyone that day.
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18 Sep 19
@kellyjay saidYour religious philosophy on this topic makes no sense.
Nothing about her could be real either; there are no such women let alone billions of them. God has poured out knowledge of Him so none of us will be with an excuse towards Him. He will judge us justly with what we know, acknowledge Him here or not. We can suppress knowledge of Him here, but what we know will be on full display during Jesus' Christ judgment all the secrets of man will on display in full view of everyone that day.
18 Sep 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidThe fact that we prefer lies over truth, this world over the Kingdom of God, selfishness over love makes us unworthy of God's Kingdom even before we start going into the works we have done. We are either connected to the One who is calling us abiding in Christ coming out of darkness, or not. People love the darkness suppressing the truth of God; the crimes will fit the punishment. The way back to God was made by God for us in the cost of the Son of God laying down His life for us and taking on all of our sins! If this great salvation is rejected or ignored, the punishment will fit the crime.
Any of those things warrant eternal suffering?
And nothing mythical about it. There are billions of such woman and men that your God has apparently sent to eternal torment.
18 Sep 19
@kellyjay saidWhat about people who subscribe to other religions?
The fact that we prefer lies over truth, this world over the Kingdom of God, selfishness over love makes us unworthy of God's Kingdom even before we start going into the works we have done. We are either connected to the One who is calling us abiding in Christ coming out of darkness, or not. People love the darkness suppressing the truth of God; the crimes will fit the punis ...[text shortened]... all of our sins! If this great salvation is rejected or ignored, the punishment will fit the crime.
18 Sep 19
I guess maybe we just have to remember that the arguments, while not universally persuasive as no arguments are actually that, were presented.
I don't feel they were attacked adequately and after hundreds of posts they're just being brought up again.
All these questions have had their reasons presented before and while they may not be universally persuasive, no counter narrative has emerged.
I'm struggling to think of something else to present.
@philokalia saidIt is not a discussion between us and them, it is always between us and God, we can deny, reject, mock, attack, change the subject, pick on some small detail instead answering the question posed, we will given an account for what is known. The truth will come out, it will be on full display, and there will be no one with an excuse before God. If we didn't know the truth we would have an excuse, but since we say we know and understand there will be none.
I guess maybe we just have to remember that the arguments, while not universally persuasive as no arguments are actually that, were presented.
I don't feel they were attacked adequately and after hundreds of posts they're just being brought up again.
All these questions have had their reasons presented before and while they may not be universally persuasive, no counter narrative has emerged.
I'm struggling to think of something else to present.
John 3:18-20 English Standard Version (ESV)
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.
18 Sep 19
@philokalia saidI think you have simply made lots of assertions about what you believe and have not answered my questions.
I guess maybe we just have to remember that the arguments, while not universally persuasive as no arguments are actually that, were presented.
I don't feel they were attacked adequately and after hundreds of posts they're just being brought up again.
All these questions have had their reasons presented before and while they may not be universally persuasive, no counter narrative has emerged.
I'm struggling to think of something else to present.
So I perceive you as only believing what you believe and not really being able to argue your corner.
So I perceive you as having dodged the issue. Maybe it's because you are pretentious and winging it. Or maybe you have been operating at your maximim cognitive ability. Either way, my questions have been sidestepped.
If you feel you can, as I said, hold your head high in terms of your moral compass after your flurry of ersatz 'It is because it is'- type 'intellectualizations', then you should just go ahead and hold your head high.
18 Sep 19
@kellyjay saidYou are free to go back and demonstrate your integrity by responding to any of the dozens and dozens of on-topic posts that you seemed unable to cope with.
It is not a discussion between us and them, it is always between us and God, we can deny, reject, mock, attack, change the subject, pick on some small detail instead answering the question posed, they will given an account for what is known.