The god who burns people alive for eternity

@rajk999 said
Actually the passage you quoted earlier says hell is cast into the lake of fire. According to you, the lake of fire is a place of torment, then hell is tormented for eternity? What about death, cast into the lake of fire and tormented for eternity as well?

The ones who disobey the commandments are the ones who reject Christ. Your church doctrine rejects Christ's command ...[text shortened]... do not do the good works He commanded will be cast out of the Kingdom of God. Your church is guilty.

Shut up, idiot.

@secondson said
Shut up, idiot.

Being called idiot by a church Christian is a compliment.
Being called a foolish man by Christ ... now I would be worried about that if I were you.

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. (Matthew 7:26-27 KJV)

Your fall is going to be great.

@fmf said
If you don't think you are running away, why are you worried? I have been accused of running away in the past; it doesn't worry me. I have been accused of lying; it doesn't worry me. Why are you worried?

I just like to have friendly interactions and an impact ofsome kind. Obviously, that is not always possible, but I did sink a good chunbk of time into typing things out today and wasn't able to complete a book I am oh-so-close to finishing so it was a bit of a bummer.

But hey, you're right.

People are going to do what they are going to do, and I should not expect anything. ^^

@fmf said
What is the moral purpose and the moral justification of using torture by fire? You seem squeamish about torture and about fire. You avoid using the words.

I was actually told that the greatest deprivation of hell is the eternal isolation from God since I was a young boy; I was recently told that the greatest deprivation is not just the isolation from God, but the total isolation from others, and the reference to the 'worm that dieth not' in Mark 9:44 is, in part, the conscience gnawing away at the person.

I was also told that in hell it is impossibel to see the face of another or to communicate with another, and that this was among the greatest horrors of it.

The fire part is always played down and is like an afterthought.

This also goes with the concept that heaven is undescribable. Therefore, the fire of God as love and the fire of God as a consuming flame are said to be potentially symbolic because the true realities are indescribable.

It is quite Protestant to think of these things as literal pools of fire, one might say, though I do know that the Hieromonk who wrote the Orthodox Dogmatic Theology book implied it was a literal lake of fire and it should not be symbolized away. However, the spirit of symbolism is not actually meant to defray from the torturous aspect of the punishment. ^^

Is hell terrible? Of course! It'[s literally the hyperbole we employ to describe the worst thing. It is, of course, terrible, and eternal.

Alright - do you have some other material you want covered?

@kellyjay said
Nothing about her could be real either; there are no such women let alone billions of them. God has poured out knowledge of Him so none of us will be with an excuse towards Him. He will judge us justly with what we know, acknowledge Him here or not. We can suppress knowledge of Him here, but what we know will be on full display during Jesus' Christ judgment all the secrets of man will on display in full view of everyone that day.

What do mean nothing about her could be real? Read again what I wrote about her. There are millions of such people:

'Little old lady, spent her life caring for others, never knowingly hurt anybody. Always tried her best to be a decent human being. Doesn't believe in any God.'

@kellyjay said
The fact that we prefer lies over truth, this world over the Kingdom of God, selfishness over love makes us unworthy of God's Kingdom even before we start going into the works we have done. We are either connected to the One who is calling us abiding in Christ coming out of darkness, or not. People love the darkness suppressing the truth of God; the crimes will fit the punis ...[text shortened]... all of our sins! If this great salvation is rejected or ignored, the punishment will fit the crime.

The punishment will fit the crime?!?!

Eternal torment in hell fits the 'crime' of rejecting God?

Wow.

@secondson said
Shut up, idiot.

You say 'those who reject Christ go to hell' and then immediately post something a million miles away from the teachings of Christ.

Hope you like hot weather.

@philokalia said
I just like to have friendly interactions and an impact ofsome kind. Obviously, that is not always possible, but I did sink a good chunbk of time into typing things out today and wasn't able to complete a book I am oh-so-close to finishing so it was a bit of a bummer.

Look. I don't want you to visit me in Indonesia. I don't want to get drunk with you. I don't want to go cam2cam with you. I don't want to swap audio files with you. I am singularly unimpressed by you. I am not interested in being your friend. Try chaney3 or Eladar.

The "impact" is that you are added to the list of torturer god ideologues here who cannot explain the moral purpose or moral justification for inflicting the most agonizing kind of physical suffering upon people for eternity for not holding the same narcissistic and misanthropic beliefs in supernatural things as you do.

@fmf said
Look. I don't want you to visit me in Indonesia. I don't want to get drunk with you. I don't want to go cam2cam with you. I don't want to swap audio files with you. I am singularly unimpressed by you. I am not interested in being your friend. Try chaney3 or Eladar.

The "impact" is that you are added to the list of torturer god ideologues here who cannot explain the moral purpo ...[text shortened]... ity for not holding the same narcissistic and misanthropic beliefs in supernatural things as you do.

LOL, don't worry about it. I travel a lot and have been intending to hit up Indonesia next, and I know how small expat scenes can be, so I was throwing it out there to be nice. One of my good buddies from the old days lives in Jakarta and I will be heading there at some point as it is, though Bali may be first. I also really want to visit Jayapura because I am fascinated with New Guinea.

The debate over voip offer is not just for you, but for dive, and for anyone at all who would be interested. There is nothing about "cams" involved. It seems no matter how delicately I phrase it, you are trying to accuse me of being a pervert, as if it isn't 2019 and there aren't people having voice-over-internet-protocol debates all the time. I remember beign invited to these all the time back in 2012.

The "impact" is that you are added to the list of torturer god ideologues here who cannot explain the moral purpose or moral justification for inflicting the most agonizing kind of physical suffering upon people for eternity for not holding the same narcissistic and misanthropic beliefs in supernatural things as you do.

You guys always keep on this moral "purpose" thing and never acknowledge the fact that there are a lot of meanings witin 'purpose' and the one that you are using is likely not relevant -- something that I think was covered in and around page 20 of this thread.

Secondly, I've explained the moral justification. Of course you don't accept it: you do not accept even the premise that there is a God, and you entered this debate with your mind set (just like me).

If anyone in the future visits this thread, I am sure they will see the explanation, and they'll note that there hasn't been an in-depth response to it at all, just accusations that were not founded.

You have literally accused me of not confronting a thing when I have. You need to get a bit tighter & more precise with your language, and less sloppy.

@philokalia said
You guys always keep on this moral "purpose" thing and never acknowledge the fact that there are a lot of meanings witin 'purpose' and the one that you are using is likely not relevant -- something that I think was covered in and around page 20 of this thread.

Secondly, I've explained the moral justification. Of course you don't accept it: you do not accept even the pr ...[text shortened]... thing when I have. You need to get a bit tighter & more precise with your language, and less sloppy.

Yet another waffly post which purports to answer my specific questions about torture without referring to or using the word "torture" or even discussing it or even acknowledging what it is or why THAT is supposedly the morally sound punishment. People "in the future" may well notice that too.

@fmf said
Yet another waffly post which purports to answer my specific questions about torture without referring to or using the word "torture" or even discussing it or even acknowledging what it is or why THAT is supposedly the morally sound punishment. People "in the future" may well notice that too.

Trying a second swing at it, eh?

It's hard to keep up a debate with someone when half of their criticisms consists in suggesting you write too much.

And no, I do not use the word torture much because it is the just deserts & punishment for wrong-doing, while torture generally implies an inherently immoral dimension.

@philokalia said
Trying a second swing at it, eh?

You mentioned what people "in the future" might think. I was just suggesting that you have tried your hardest not to discuss torture for umpteen "It is because it is" strewn pages and that people "in the future" might notice it.

@philokalia said
It's hard to keep up a debate with someone when half of their criticisms consists in suggesting you write too much.

And where did I say such a thing in this debate? "Half" of my criticisms? What on Earth are you on about?

@philokalia said
And no, I do not use the word torture much because it is the just deserts & punishment for wrong-doing, while torture generally implies an inherently immoral dimension.

Priceless!

Why is torture ~ an act with an inherently immoral dimension, as you concede, inflicted constantly and for eternity on humans, using burning flames, which cause the most agonizing kind of pain possible ~ why is it the morally justified punishment for failing to have the same beliefs as you? Using the turn of phrase "just deserts" is not an answer: it's a dodge.

@fmf said
And where did I say such a thing in this debate? "Half" of my criticisms? What on Earth are you on about?

The term you invented, "waffle," amounts to criticizing someone for writing too much.

I stated somewhat hyperbolically that this accounts for half of your criticisms of other people's points.

But yeah, man, that was rude of me.

I shouldn't discuss meta like that. It just becomes a discussion of drama that doesn't help anyone.