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19 Sep 19
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It freaks me out that a modern human being believes everlasting punishment emanates from an supposedly omnibenevolent deity.
Is there some historical creed in Christian dogma where you see the word "omnibenevolent" ?
I don't know if there is so I ask the genuine question.
Would "omnibenevolence" in God mean God would be good to the extent to allow His throne to be overthrown? I mean would such omnibelevolence allow Satan and all who follow him to be forever overthrowing God's will, insulting His glory, opposing His holiness, spitting on His love when He in Christ became sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Christ ?
Concerning the carrying out of His perfect will to those who allow Him it says -
"And He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death will be no more, nor will there be sorrow or crying or pain anymore; for the former things are passed away." (Rev. 21:4)
But if a being says "Stay away from my eyes. I want the former things. Death is better than You God, I prefer sorrow, crying and pain to You and Your will. I reject You from now on - forever."
Does your "omnibenevolence" attribute of God call for Him to vindicate forever these as well as those who believed His salvation - to become sin that we might become God's righteousness in Christ ?
19 Sep 19
1 edit
@secondson saidYou have dodged the question.
Those who reject Christ are responsible for their own choices. Your mischaracterization of the God of the Bible notwithstanding.
Heaven and hell are set before man. Eternal life for those who believe, and everlasting punishment for those who don't.
Here it is again:
Do you now concede that there are Christians here in this community who believe that the Christian God torments people who reject or lack belief in Jesus in burning flames for eternity?
19 Sep 19
@secondson saidNotions of "Heaven" and "Hell" and supernatural punishment?
Freaks you out doesn't it?
No. Not at all.
You are completely misreading the situation.
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19 Sep 19
@sonship saidYour God 'isn't' omnibenevolent. Gotcha.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
It freaks me out that a modern human being believes everlasting punishment emanates from an supposedly omnibenevolent deity.
Is there some historical creed in Christian dogma where you see the word "omnibenevolent" ?
I don't know if there is so I ask the genuine question.
Would "omnibenevolence" in God mean God would be good ...[text shortened]... hose who believed His salvation - to become sin that we might become God's righteousness in Christ ?
Better not read 1 John 4:8:
'Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.'
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Revelation 14:10:
'They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.'
Happy to help.
It doesn't say Christ is in hell. It doesn't say Christ will be in Hades or in Sheol or in Hell or in the lake of fire or in the place of the dead.
Now Christ is God. And the OT says that before the eyes of God Sheol is open and naked. He can see what is what there but we cannot.
Job 26:6 is several English translations.
English Standard Version
Sheol is naked before God, and Abaddon has no covering.
Berean Study Bible
Sheol is naked before Him, and Abaddon has no covering.
New American Standard Bible
"Naked is Sheol before Him, And Abaddon has no covering.
New King James Version
Sheol is naked before Him, And Destruction has no covering.
King James Bible
Hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.
The God-man Jesus, the Lamb, does not have to be physically there where they are for what is happening to them to be before Him.
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19 Sep 19
2 edits
Ghost I looked at the wrong passage.
Now finding the right one I will consider your proof of the non-omnibenevolence of God in -
"He who does not love has not known god, because God is love." (1 John 4:8)
Okay. Let's check it out.
Left to myself apart from the grace of Christ, I love adultery, fornication, pornography, lying, theft, swindling, money, over indulgence in good food.
Does the Apostle John mean in these loves I have experienced God?
Left to myself apart from the grace of Christ, I love lawlessness, love to not be told what I have to do, love to not pay my bills, love monster movies, love loose women who flirt, love past girfriends, love sin, love sinning, love sick jokes, love to cuss out teachers, cops, parents, love to tell people I hate to drop dead.
Is John saying that because God is love and he who loves knows God, I knew God when I walked in these things?
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19 Sep 19
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sonship, you removed your post after it had already been replied to?
Ghost quoted First John 4:8. I mistook it for another verse.
I referenced the WRONG verse. So I removed the misdirected reply.
And I reserve the right to modify or remove any post I author on this Forum for any reason I find necessary.
19 Sep 19
@sonship saidYou are truly a sick and evil man.
Ghost I looked at the wrong passage.
Now finding the right one I will consider your proof of the non-omnibenevolence of God in -
"He who does not love has not known god, because God is love." (1 John 4:8)
Okay. Let's check it out.
Left to myself apart from the grace of Christ, I love adultery, fornication, pornography, lying, th ...[text shortened]... aying that because God is love and he who loves knows God, I knew God when I walked in these things?
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19 Sep 19
@sonship said'in the presence of' sonship,...'in the presence of...'
The God-man Jesus, the Lamb, does not have to be physically there where they are for what is happening to them to be before Him.
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19 Sep 19
1 edit
@sonship saidWhat are you on about?! It was YOU who was questioning God's omnibenevolence. I cited 1 John 4:8 as evidence that he 'WAS' omnibenevolent, as 'God 'is' love.'
Ghost I looked at the wrong passage.
Now finding the right one I will consider your proof of the non-omnibenevolence of God in -
"He who does not love has not known god, because God is love." (1 John 4:8)
Okay. Let's check it out.
Left to myself apart from the grace of Christ, I love adultery, fornication, pornography, lying, th ...[text shortened]... aying that because God is love and he who loves knows God, I knew God when I walked in these things?
(You said, 'Is there some historical creed in Christian dogma where you see the word "omnibenevolent" ? I don't know if there is so I ask the genuine question).
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19 Sep 19
@sonship saidYou really are all over the shop today.
@FMF
sonship, you removed your post after it had already been replied to?
Ghost quoted First John 4:8. I mistook it for another verse.
I referenced the WRONG verse. So I removed the misdirected reply.
And I reserve the right to modify or remove any post I author on this Forum for any reason I find necessary.