@kellyjay saidAnd you continue to talk in circles.
Really cherry picking scripture to prove a point is not rightfully dividing the Word. Which is why so many only quote a handful of verses and ignore others outright!
@thinkofone saidI not surprised you are continuing not grasping the truth about scripture. If you don’t take it all into account you get a unbalanced interpretation of the truth, causing an over emphasis on some parts and under emphasis on others. For example do you believe Jesus was sent by God, failing to understand that causes you to miss many things.
And you continue to talk in circles.
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@kellyjay saidWhich is exactly what happens when you interpret the entire book of Revelation as being literal, when the book itself tells you it was all a vision.
If you don’t take it all into account you get a unbalanced interpretation of the truth, causing an over emphasis on some parts and under emphasis on others.
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There is no “hope” about it. Your literal interpretation of Revelation is catastrophically wrong.
Are you saying that I do not believe 1:1 applies anywhere, ever in the book of Revelation?
"The Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave to Him to show to His slaves the things that must quickly take place, and He made it known by signs...." (Rev. 1:1)
Are you saying I totally do not adhere ever to that principle - the things were made known by signs?
I think you know that that is not true but you are pushing emotional hot buttons of generalization, broad brushed and disingenuous.
Your literal interpretation of Revelation is catastrophically wrong.
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@sonship saidNo, I’m not saying that you do not believe that.
@divegeester
Are you saying that I do not believe 1:1 applies anywhere, ever in the book of Revelation?
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"And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
And if anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire." (Rev. 20:14,15)
Obviously there is some symbolism here. Obviously we are to consider something of SIGN going on here.
My personal opinion is that when John said he saw Death and Hades cast into the lake of fire perhaps he saw the two horses and their riders (a SIGN itself) in chapter 6 thrown into the second death, the lake of fire.
Otherwise it is an abstraction very much.
Let Divegeester make his case that the second death or the lake of fire is allegorical for SOMETHING and explain WHAT that something IS.
If he doesn't like eternal punishment, eternal torment. Let him make his case for what the SIGN (if not 100% literal) means.
Annihilation is cessation of punishment.
To cease to exist would not be the commencement of eternal punishment but the cessation of it.
The non-existent cannot be punished or rewarded.
The non-existent cannot .be suffering of any penalty.
The New Testament said that they will "suffer the penalty of eternal destruction." (1 Thess. 1:9)
Matthew 25 says the cursed go into the eternal fire. If their cessation of existence commences what is the purpose of an "eternal fire" when temporary existence and suffering is its effect?
When the punishment is concluded with annihilation why should not the fire be extinguished rather than burn forever ?
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@sonship saidSo, will your version of Jesus be in Hell in the presence of people being burned alive?
"And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
And if anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire." (Rev. 20:14,15)
Obviously there is some symbolism here. Obviously we are to consider something of SIGN going on here.
My personal opinion is that when John said he s ...[text shortened]... nt is concluded with annihilation why should not the fire be extinguished rather than burn forever ?
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So, will your version of Jesus be in Hell in the presence of people being burned alive?
I already debunked that cherished interpretation of Revelation 14:10. I think the wind has been taken out of those sails.
Now graduate from this emotional plea you make to exacerbate your revulsion and explain what your alternative interpretation of a lake of fire as "the second death" means.
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@sonship saidErr, no you didn’t.
@divegeester
So, will your version of Jesus be in Hell in the presence of people being burned alive?
I already debunked that cherished interpretation of Revelation 14:10. I think the wind has been taken out of those sails.
Now graduate from this emotional plea you make to exacerbate your revulsion and explain what your alternative interpretation of a lake of fire as "the second death" means.
But I’m sure you planned to say you had, and now you’ve said it.
Doesn’t make it so.
Actually it’s quite dishonest of you.
Edit hilarious too.
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Err, no you didn’t.
But I’m sure you planned to say you had, and now you’ve said it.
Doesn’t make it so.
Actually it’s quire dishonest of you
Show me the words "He is in their presence" or "the Lamb and the angles WITH them" or "He is in hell with them" or "He is in their presence in the lake of fire" or "Beside them is Jesus" or "Among them is Jesus as they are being burned".
Twist that meaning from "and he shall be tormented in fire and brimestone before the holy angels and before the Lamb."
After you song and dance your way around that then tend to the question at hand -
Let Divegeester make his case that the second death or the lake of fire is allegorical for SOMETHING and explain WHAT that something IS.
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@Ghost-of-a-Duke
You guys talking it over on the phone ?
Get out of the way for a while and let Divegeester speak for himself.