The Gospel of Jesus vs The Gospel of Paul

Originally posted by @dj2becker
I personally think NDEs could be regarded as evidence but obviously there is no definitive proof. .

I do not.

Originally posted by @fmf
I don't see what declarations of death that turned out to be premature have to do with what we are talking about.

It seems like you’re defining death as someone not coming back to life. There are criteria for clinical death and for biological death.

Originally posted by @romans1009
Do you think the spirit is distinct and separate from the body, though it inhabits the body? Or is the spirit dependent upon the body’s biology to survive?

No. Yes.

Originally posted by @romans1009
It seems like you’re defining death as someone not coming back to life. There are criteria for clinical death and for biological death.

Declarations of death made about people who are then found not to be dead were errors.

Originally posted by @romans1009
Or is the spirit in your view confined to being within the body at all times?

Yes.

Originally posted by @fmf
I don't know really. I'll tell you when I encounter some. Do you have any real life scenarios? I will give you my take on them if they are interesting. My default setting is that dozens of billions of humans have lived and dies and that was it. Claims to the contrary by religionists are not persuasive.

How can you definitively say that NDEs are not evidence when you don't even really know what would be evidence? What criteria did you use to decide that NDEs do not qualify as evidence when you don't even seem to know what would qualify as evidence?

Originally posted by @fmf
Declarations of death made about people who are then found not to be dead were errors.

Death is defined as never coming back to life? It’s a good thing medical examiners have a different definition or there’d be a lot of dead bodies laying around decomposing while the MEs waited to see if they came back to life.

Originally posted by @romans1009
So your interpretation of the spirit that humans possess is in alignment with it being able to leave the body and observe surgeons working on the body from above the operating table?

Don't know. Hallucinations. Dreams. Hoaxes. Hysteria. Anaesthetic anomalies. Chinese whispers/urban legends. I was very ill some years ago and "saw" some strange things and had some delirious thoughts but there was nothing supernatural about it.

Originally posted by @fmf
No. Yes.

Then how is the spirit different from the brain?

Originally posted by @romans1009
Death is defined as never coming back to life? It’s a good thing medical examiners have a different definition or there’d be a lot of dead bodies laying around decomposing while the MEs waited to see if they came back to life.

If this sort of stuff reaffirms your religious beliefs, good for you. I do not seek to divest you of your faith.

Originally posted by @romans1009
Then how is the spirit different from the brain?

I didn't say it was. Can I ask you this: have you read everything I have posted on this thread?

Originally posted by @fmf
Don't know. Hallucinations. Dreams. Hoaxes. Hysteria. Anaesthetic anomalies. Chinese whispers/urban legends. I was very ill some years ago and "saw" some strange things and had some delirious thoughts but there was nothing supernatural about it.

You ought to do some research on them before you so flippantly dismiss them. Patients who experienced this knew things about the operation and what the surgeons did, including what was happening outside the operating room, that they could not possibly have known if their spirit had not left their body.

Originally posted by @fmf
Can I ask you this: have you read everything I have posted on this thread?

😵

Originally posted by @dj2becker
How can you definitively say that NDEs are not evidence when you don't even really know what would be evidence? What criteria did you use to decide that NDEs do not qualify as evidence when you don't even seem to know what would qualify as evidence?

If the people didn't die, then they didn't die. Presumably, they died later. And that was that. I don't find the NDE arguments persuasive at all. Nor am I trying to persuade you to stop believing them. Is there anything else that I have said in the last 7-8 pages you want to talk about?

Originally posted by @fmf
If this sort of stuff reaffirms your religious beliefs, good for you. I do not seek to divest you of your faith.

That’s totally non-responsive to what I wrote and you couldn’t divest me of my faith if you wanted to. That does seem to be a standard line you resort to when you’re in a pickle.
And NDEs are at most an interesting anomaly to me. My faith would be just as strong if NDEs did not exist and hadn’t occurred.