The Gospel of Jesus vs The Gospel of Paul

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Sorry I have never used the word 'pickle' before. You are such a liar.

I think you have. Quite a lot in fact. People who've read a lot of your posts can decide if I am lying.

Originally posted by @romans1009
Yes, but your implication that I’m Becker is trolling.

Does it matter to you?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Sorry I have never used the word 'pickle' before. You are such a liar.

It’s sad that he had to resort to that in the middle of an interesting discussion.

Romans1009: It’s sad that he had to resort to that in the middle of an interesting discussion.

Originally posted by @romans1009
It’s sad that he had to resort to that in the middle of an interesting discussion.

Actually, it's happened at the end of a discussion.

Originally posted by @fmf
I think you have. Quite a lot in fact. People who've read a lot of your posts can decide if I am lying.

You are either deliberately lying or using some serious hallucinogens. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Originally posted by @fmf
Actually, it's happened at the end of a discussion.

I guess that depends on one’s perspective. I still found your definition of death to be pretty ridiculous

Originally posted by @romans1009
I guess that depends on one’s perspective. I still found your definition of death to be pretty ridiculous

Obviously when he has no comeback he'll either end the discussion because 'he is giving you too much attention' or he'll resort to his favorite ad hominems.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
You are either deliberately lying or using some serious hallucinogens.

Neither. But people who've read your posts can decide if I am lying about you. You've called me out; I think I've got it right.

Originally posted by @fmf
Neither. But people who've read your posts can decide if I am lying about you. You've called me out; I think I've got it right.

Back to your old trolling ways it seems. Just when you were starting to behave.

Originally posted by @fmf
Neither. But people who've read your posts can decide if I am lying about you. You've called me out; I think I've got it right.

Let’s talk about your tautological definition of death some more. Should medical examiners adopt it? How about doctors? Maybe the AMA could consider it.

Originally posted by @thinkofone

A few replies to ThinkofOne's handwaving to another writer. (go argue with that guy).

Although we now know that the redemptive work of Christ’s death and resurrection is the crux of our message of salvation for today, we must be careful not to read into Jesus’ ministry what is not there.

Particularly not to "read into Jesus' ministry" that He is not God incarnate.

Particularly not to "read into Jesus' ministry" as ToO does, that He walked no more on the earth after He was crucified.

A few responses to ToO's OP more:

We would search in vain for a clear presentation of the preaching of the cross in the ministry of Jesus and the disciples in Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John...

We would really search in vain for a clear denial that Jesus, after dying a redemptive death, did not rise from the dead.

Yet somehow ThinofOne (though keeping it rather secretive) thinks the resurrection is not part of the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

Extracting the resurrection out of the Gospels to euphemistically talk about "Jesus' ministry while He walked on earth" is code for disbelief in the Gospel, plain and simple.

Some more response to the OP.

Jesus did not preach his redemptive work on the cross for salvation during his ministry on earth. Instead, Jesus taught the gospel of the coming kingdom (Mark 1:14-15).

In early Mark John comes preaching about repentance, forgvieness of sins and the kingdom. John says one is coming after him, Jesus, whose sandals he is not even worthy to untie.

Think of this. One man from God preaching repentance and forgiveness saying that Another is coming out doing what he is doing to the point of there being no comparison.

So John baptizes in water.
Jesus, to whom he cannot compare, will baptize with the Holy Spirit.

What John is doing Jesus will do more intensely, more effectively, and with greater authority and power.

Mark 1:4:

"John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for forgiveness of sin."

So how can anyone argue that Jesus came afterwards not doing more of the same thing?

What Jesus taught was the same and INCLUDED His redemptive death to come.

"For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve and to give His life as a ransom for many." (Mark 10:45)

Continued response to the OP.

This gospel consisted of repentance from sin, doing the commandments, and seeking first the kingdom (Matt 5:19, 6:33). Although these ideas are commonly recognized as good and Biblical ideas, none of them include faith in the redemptive work of Christ on the cross.

Jesus was the only man whoever lived absolute for the will of the Father. What we see in Matthew expressed as commands are really Jesus speaking about Himself. This is how He lived.

For thirty years He lived on earth among the people making no particular spectacular stir. He did not sensationally draw attention to Himself. I consider it almost miraculous that for three decades the Son of God lived among men a normal life.

But it was a PERFECT life. It was a life that no other human being had ever lived.

Then He commences His formal ministry at the age of 30 when a priest is ordained to begin service. He spoke of Himself as to how He had lived. The demand He makes is impossible to meet without Him coming into us as the Spirit to be our new life.

We make consider the Gospels this way:
Matthew presents the demand.
John presents the supply to meet the demand.

Matthew presents Christ making the demand essentially by speaking of His own experience - how He Himself lived on earth.

John presents the way that others can get into the same reality. It is only by having the supply of Christ as our inward life.

"In Him was life, and the life was the light of men." ( John 1:4)

In the resurrected Redeemer is the possibility to be " begotten ... of God" with the life of God implanted into our life.

"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name,

who were begotten not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." (John 1:12,13)

it is helpful to think of it like this - the Gospel of Supply (John) to meet the Gospel of Demand (Matthew.)

"But these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have [divine] life in His name." (John 20:31)