Spirituality
25 Oct 21
12 Nov 21
@sonship saidI have no intention of proving every foolishness you say is wrong, even though you are. Im here [I have said this many times] to promote the teachings and commandments of Christ, because your beloved Christian churches have cast aside Christ and His teachings in favour of mouth worship.
@Rajk999
Jesus saves all of mankind,
Through his death and resurrection...
You use the word resurrection. But what dictionary defines what YOU mean when you use it? Do you use something like the Jehovah Witnesses concept of resurrection?
Here is your golden opportunity to refute me that you do believe ohysically, bodily, so that he coul ...[text shortened]... [/b] by God from the dead?
Here's your chance to prove sonship wrong about you. Or otherwise.
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12 Nov 21
1 edit
@Rajk999
You believe that Christ dying for all means that substitution took place for all.
Though Christ died for all substitution does not take place on behalf of those who reject Christ and do not believe into Him.
Again, Revelation 20:15 is prophecy,. prediction, and a vision into the last judgment. Substitution will not take place for those whose names are not found in the book of life.
While the word "substitution" like "Trinity" cannot be located in the Bible, the truth of such a matter is.
That "saved" can take on different significances is true, which I have said before here.
@sonship saidSunstitution is when you take the words out of the bible and substitute your own words, with the intention of changing the meaning ... so Im not interested. I will leave you with this
@Rajk999
You believe that Christ dying for all means that substitution took place for all.
Though Christ died for all substitution does not take place on behalf of those who reject Christ and do not believe into Him.
Again, Revelation 20:15 is prophecy,. prediction, and a vision into the last judgment. Substitution will not take place for those whose ...[text shortened]... ter is.
That "saved" can take on different significances is true, which I have said before here.
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. (1 John 2:1-5 KJV)
Christ did not just die for Christians or the faithful,
Christ died for the whole world
Only those who keep the commandments know Christ and are in Christ
12 Nov 21
@sonship saidThere is only one group of people who have Christ, and it is those who
The Son of God IS the eternal life. If you have not the Son you have not within THE eternal life. That is so even if you do live everlastingly.
KEEP THE COMMSNDMENTS.
Those who just profess faith in Christ and do not KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS ... DO NOT HAVE CHRIST....
Let me know if you want the reference for that.
12 Nov 21
@kellyjay saidFaith in Jesus matters only in the sense that your faith should make you keep the commandments. Otherwise it is useless. There are some who keep the commandments even though by your definition they have no faith -
No, all of mankind can be saved. Jesus took on the sins of the whole world, we all have the right to become children of God, but some are not going to be; instead, they will hear the words, I never knew you. According to many of the things Jesus said in many settings talking in different parables and stories about judgment day, some are cast out, some even bragging about al ...[text shortened]... savior, our Lord and King, our everything we need our Way, Truth, and Life, the door to the Father.
- those who lived before Christ, and never heard of Christ?
- those who were never taught about Christ ?
- those who were abused by a Christian church and left the church?
People can still keep the commandments and they will still be rewarded by Christ. Christians are mistaken to think that a profession of faith means they have Christ. That is a false doctrine.
KEEPERS OF THE COMMANDMENTS HAVE CHRIST.... NOBODY ELSE.
12 Nov 21
@rajk999 saidDepart from me I never knew you, we will obey Christ who knows Him if we deny Him we will be denied.
There is only one group of people who have Christ, and it is those who
KEEP THE COMMSNDMENTS.
Those who just profess faith in Christ and do not KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS ... DO NOT HAVE CHRIST....
Let me know if you want the reference for that.
2 Corinthians 1:
English Standard Version
And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Galatians 4:6
And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”
Galatians 6:8
For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
1 Thessalonians 4:8
Therefore whoever disregards this, disregards not man but God, who gives his Holy Spirit to you.
Titus 3:4-6
English Standard Version
But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
1 John 3:24
Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.
1 John 4:13
By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.
Romans 8:9
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
1 Corinthians 3:16
Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you?
Titus 3:5
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
Romans 8:9
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
We will do good works, but Jesus saves us not our works without Him we are on our own.
12 Nov 21
@kellyjay saidI see you are back regurgitating your church garbage.
Depart from me I never knew you, we will obey Christ who knows Him if we deny Him we will be denied.
2 Corinthians 1:
English Standard Version
And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Galatians 4:6
And because you are sons, God has sent the Spir ...[text shortened]... ng to him.
We will do good works, but Jesus saves us not our works without Him we are on our own.
12 Nov 21
@kellyjay saidYou quote the word of God without understanding the Word of God. Jesus is the Word of God. You do not know Jesus neither do you believe in Him. You believe in a twisted version of the teachings of Paul. I will give you a couple examples of your stupidity and your false church doctrine, Although I know you lack the intellect to understand, neither do you have the integrity to admit you are in error.
I quoted you scripture; you can call than regurgitation my church garbage; I call it quoting the Word of God.
No 1 - Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. (Matthew 16:20-21 KJV)
The Word of God, is telling his disciples NOT TO TELL PEOPLE that he was Jesus the Christ. Are you doing that? NO.
Jesus is telling the disciples alone that he will die and will rise again after 3 days. Jesus never told the masses about his death and resurrection. Yet you are telling people about it.
No 2. You use the statement by Christ to Nicodemus about being born again. Nicodemus came to Jesus secretly at night to speak privately to Jesus. Jesus never told the masses that they need to be born again. Yet you use that claiming that is your core gospel, and they many things Jesus preached to the masses you totally ignore those .... because they are all about good works and rightousness. You and your church despise good works and righteouness. You promote sin and evil.
Understanding is what you lack. There are passages that need to be properly understood and taken in the context and environment in which they were said. You cannot simply regurgatate passages from the word of God and claim you have the truth.
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12 Nov 21
3 edits
- those who lived before Christ, and never heard of Christ?
- those who were never taught about Christ ?
- those who were abused by a Christian church and left the church?
You can add to this list people who are mentally ill, or those who never had working ears, or those aborted, or those who were in a coma for years, or those whose minds didn't function properly, or those who knew only superstitious Christianity, or those never heard of Jesus.
Add all the cases that you think God needs some help from you to figure out and its still says -
"And if anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire." (Rev. 20:15)
I am preparing myself not to be shocked at some imagined incompetence of Almighty God but of how unimaginable wise, all-knowing, and just He is.
I am not unaware of the different levels of light or circumstances of all kinds.
We do not know absolutely all the ways one's name will end up in the book of life.
We do know that it is the Lamb's book, the Redeemer's book. And any hope of expecting God not to be able to dispense perfect just justice I think is doomed to profound disappointment. He is God. He knows how to be God.
12 Nov 21
1 edit
@rajk999 saidYou sure make a lot of personal judgments about things you don't know. My life is not the discussion. It is totally about what scripture says, that and only that matters.
You quote the word of God without understanding the Word of God. Jesus is the Word of God. You do not know Jesus neither do you believe in Him. You believe in a twisted version of the teachings of Paul. I will give you a couple examples of your stupidity and your false church doctrine, Although I know you lack the intellect to understand, neither do you have the integrit ...[text shortened]... ere said. You cannot simply regurgatate passages from the word of God and claim you have the truth.
You should read the whole Bible with your last statement I would suggest reading the book of Acts. You clearly don't know what He wanted.
The grace of God saves us through faith, and not even that is because of us. It is not because works of righteousness are we saved and given God's Spirit. He is our sure foundation not our efforts to please Him.
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12 Nov 21
1 edit
There is life with God and life without Him; you are correct there is a difference. Even here, we can have a life with and without God, to spend eternity like that I would want to avoid.
You may be aware that there are three words that translate to English "life" in Greek NT.
bios - "life"
psuche - "life"
zoe - "life"
Take now for instance John 10,11 We read in English "life" twice highlighted here in bold black.
"The thief does not come but to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life and may have it abundantly. (v.10)
I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep." (v.11)
He came that we might have zoe - the divine eternal life and have it abundantly.
For this He laid down his psuche - soul - life.
Only zoe is the divine and eternal life of God Himself.
The Recovery Version New Testament in the footnote and study notes pays close attention to the different Greek words we read in English as life. I recommend that you might want to have an RcV. Especially in the Gospel of John details given in the study notes is enlightening.
There is eternal zoe - "life" . This is Christ Himself.
I don't think there is any eternal psuche in the NT. But I would be interested if anyone found psuche or bios was preceded by eternal.
@sonship saidIncompetence would be allowing names of mouth worshippers and preachers of false doctrines like sonship and KJ, to be written in the book of life. Thankfully the bible was clear, the book of life contains the names of the righteous and those who keep the commandments. of Christ The names of the sinners and doers of iniquity, Lord Lord types are stuck off.
@Rajk999
I am preparing myself not to be shocked at some imagined incompetence of Almighty God but of how unimaginable wise, all-knowing, and just He is.
I am not unaware of the different levels of light or circumstances of all kinds.
We do not know absolutely all the ways one's name will end up in the book of life.
We do know that it is the [b]Lamb ...[text shortened]... rfect just justice I think is doomed to profound disappointment. He is God. He knows how to be God.
12 Nov 21
@kellyjay saidI can see in your posts, a whole lot of statements casting condemnation on many people, that you do not know either.
You sure make a lot of personal judgments about things you don't know. My life is not the discussion. It is totally about what scripture says, that and only that matters.
You should read the whole Bible with your last statement I would suggest reading the book of Acts. You clearly don't know what He wanted.
The grace of God saves us through faith, and not even that is ...[text shortened]... usness are we saved and given God's Spirit. He is our sure foundation not our efforts to please Him.
Its about what Jesus says. The righteous who have done good works will get eternal life. Others like you who are condemning Jesus for preaching about good works will be cast out.
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12 Nov 21
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@Rajk999
If I was to send someone to somebody here to know Christ, I would refer them to Kelly 100 times more than I would recommend they talk to you. And you can talk about "commandments, commandments, commandments" until the day you go off to your reward, whatever it is. You don't fool some of us.
The people who most appreciate you and come along to pat you on the back for doing a good job seem to be the atheists who deem they have an ally in Rajk999.
The false prophets are of the world and the world HEARS them.
Such is the case with you. How many times some atheist cuddles up next to you with "go get 'em Rajk999!" or visa versa is telling.
"They are of the world; therefore they speak out of the world, and the world hears them." (1 John 4:5)
As you oppose faith in Christ they hear you, and are all for your efforts. They hear and perceive you that you are opposing the Lord Jesus Christ. And they catch on and usually empathize.