Spirituality
25 Oct 21
13 Nov 21
@kellyjay saidWhat is the question? Ask it clearly and concisely.
It isn't the same footing; there are lies spoken in the scripture, so in the context, you have to view it all in context; the truth in it will not in context disagree with the truth in it elsewhere in scripture. Jesus will not contradict Jesus; the truth He spoke will be the truth always, the Apostles will not contradict the truth either, truth is always absolute, it is alwa ...[text shortened]... t I'm not attempting to insult your intelligence or anything about you as you have been doing to me.
13 Nov 21
@rajk999 saidTitus 3
What is the question? Ask it clearly and concisely.
But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works.
Galatians 2:16
yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
What do you do with scriptures like these that clearly says it isn't due to our works we are saved, but instead due to His mercy?
What do you do with scriptures like this that say those are condemned because they have not believed in Jesus Christ?
Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
To date, the only things I have gotten from you are your thoughts about the church I go to and me; you avoid addressing such scriptures.
13 Nov 21
2 edits
@rajk999 saidOk so I got these questions and one reference which you seem to think is the core of YOUR GOSPEL, because you have repeated it a dozen times .,,
What is the question? Ask it clearly and concisely.
1. Did the thief on the cross make it? What did he do?
2. Beyond that, who says we will not do good works?
3. Galatians 2:16 .. yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law, but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
Here goes:
1. The thief on the cross served Christ and obeyed the commandments from the day he accepted Christ until the day he died. This is what is required of Christians, and you do not preach that. You preach faith only.
2. I never said who does good works and who does not. So everytime you post this comment I have to just laugh and shake my head in disbelief that you are wilfully missing the point. The point is Jesus said to keep the commandments and do good works, and it is those who keep the commandments, they will get eternal life. You preach faith only, and continue to regurgitate saved by grace etc... Notice I said nothing about 'saved'
3. Justification is NOT ETERNAL LIFE. You need a lesson in what the word justification means. I focus on what Jesus says about eternal life. You are at the back of the class still blabbering like a retard about saved and justification. In Pauls letter to Galatians, he told them
- they are saved by grace through faith
- they are justified by faith in Christ
- they are born again
- they have the Holy Spirit
- they are Saints in Christ
- But in Gal 5, Paul told them that IF THEY DID NOT LIVE RIGHTEOUSLY THEY WILL NOT GET ETERNAL LIFE
What does that tell you ? Can you say it? ... It is the ones who live righteously enter the Kingdom of God.
Faith is nothing, Saved in nothing, Justification is nothing, Born again is nothing, Holy Spirit is noting, Saint is nothing ...
These things only become something of value IF and ONLY IF they do good works and live righteously, otherwise these people who are saved and born again and justified will be cast our of the Kingdom of God.
And in case you do not know the very same Paul said that a man is JUSTIFIED BY WORKS ... I bet you did not know that.
13 Nov 21
@kellyjay saidI answered most of these above. I wont bother answering further unless your reply shows that you understand otherwise you can stay at the back of the class and blabber all day about saved by grace.
Titus 3
But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the ...[text shortened]... en from you are your thoughts about the church I go to and me; you avoid addressing such scriptures.
13 Nov 21
1 edit
@rajk999 saidThe thief was on the cross for his crimes; now, if you think that means those who commit crimes are in service to God, we disagree. We are not saved by faith; Jesus Christ saves us; you are confused; we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not in just the act of having faith, faith is simply trusting in something it isn't a thing all by itself. This is not an act of the force of faith as it is its own little power like in Star Wars. The thief asked Jesus for mercy and in Jesus' mercy granted it; it was not a work the thief did; it was who he put his faith in when he asked Christ what saved him was what Christ did for him.
Ok so I got these questions and one reference which you seem to think is the core of YOUR GOSPEL, because you have repeated it a dozen times .,,
[i]1. Did the thief on the cross make it? What did he do?
2. Beyond that, who says we will not do good works?
3. Galatians 2:16 .. yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law, but through faith in Jesus ...[text shortened]... o not know the very same Paul said that a man is JUSTIFIED BY WORKS ... I bet you did not know that.
I think we can call it quits here; when you call the Spirit of God nothing, you are out there.
13 Nov 21
1 edit
@kellyjay saidIm out there with Paul, who told Christians:
I think we can call it quits here; when you call the Spirit of God nothing, you are out there.
- the saved by Grace
- justified by faith
- born again and faithful
- Christian Saints
- who had the Holy Spirit
THEY WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD
unless they are righteous and do good works aka keep the commandments ... I can quote at least half a doxen references that say the same thing.
You as I said are at the back of the class like a retard not listening to what Jesus and the Apostles are saying, boasting you are saved by grace through faith and ignoring what the whole bible is saying about righteousness and good works.... you dont get eternal life without it
14 Nov 21
The thing is works are simply those things that we should do, they are not things that cleanse us from sin. We are unworthy servants granted grace by God, because of His love for us.
Luke 17
“Will any one of you who has a servant plowing or keeping sheep say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come at once and recline at table’? Will he not rather say to him, ‘Prepare supper for me, and dress properly, and serve me while I eat and drink, and afterward you will eat and drink’? Does he thank the servant because he did what was commanded? So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done what was our duty.’”
14 Nov 21
3 edits
@kellyjay saidThis line is nonsense: ... The thing is works are simply those things that we should do, they are not things that cleanse us from sin.
The thing is works are simply those things that we should do, they are not things that cleanse us from sin. We are unworthy servants granted grace by God, because of His love for us.
Luke 17
“Will any one of you who has a servant plowing or keeping sheep say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come at once and recline at table’? Will he not rather say to him, ...[text shortened]... all that you were commanded, say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done what was our duty.’”
Good works and the keeping of the commandments is what you MUST DO. MUST ...... Nowhere did I say that works cleanse anyone from sin. I already addressed that when I said Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world and all people are saved by Christ, and you ignore what I said. Failure to do good works and keep the commandments means no inheritance in the Kingdom of God.
Lets go back to Galatians which you are fond of quoting Instead of cherrypicking and quoting the passage about saved by grace and not by works, read the whole book. Here is a little summary
1. The Jews were insisting that the Gentiles must keep the Law of Moses utherwise they cannot enter the Kingdom of God
2. Paul corrected that and said that the Gentiles are saved by the death and resurrection of Christ. It is not anything they did or any righteousness they did but through the Grace of God they are now saved from their sin through Chist
3. Paul said the Law of Moses cannot save anyone from their sin. Jesus did that
4. Paul explained that even though they are saved and justified by Christ they still MUST LIVE RIGHTEOUSLY [aka keep the commandments] otherwise there is NO INHERITANCE in the Kingdom of God.
That is the whole Gospel of Paul. It is essentially the same as the Gospel of Christ. It is however not the gospel of your church. Your church omits point #4 which is about what those who profess faith in Christ need to do to prepare for the Kingdom of God:
- Jesus said Keep the commandments
- Paul and all the Apostles said live righteously and avoid sin
- You and your church says DO NOTHING, and you follow it up with the statement that people who do good works are practicing works salvation. You are a false teacher.
14 Nov 21
@rajk999 saidYou have no idea what my church preaches, you don't know the name of it even, yet you talk as if you do. It is simple, Jesus saves us and we do His will after which is to do good works. Salvation is from the Lord not my efforts, right now you are like a broken record I'll not go on with you. I told you works are important, they are commanded, but it's Jesus who saves us. If you are counting on your efforts to be good enough, you will fail.
This line is nonsense: ... The thing is works are simply those things that we should do, they are not things that cleanse us from sin.
Good works and the keeping of the commandments is what you MUST DO. MUST ...... Nowhere did I say that works cleanse anyone from sin. I already addressed that when I said Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world and all people ...[text shortened]... me as the Gospel of Christ. It is however not the gospel of your church. Your church omits point #4.
14 Nov 21
1 edit
@kellyjay saidWhat your church preaches comes out of your mouth.
You have no idea what my church preaches, you don't know the name of it even, yet you talk as if you do. It is simple, Jesus saves us and we do His will after which is to do good works. Salvation is from the Lord not my efforts, right now you are like a broken record I'll not go on with you. I told you works are important, they are commanded, but it's Jesus who saves us. If you are counting on your efforts to be good enough, you will fail.
Who cares what the name of your church is.
So you think Jesus Christ, Paul and all the Apostles were wrong to tell people to keep the commandments, live righteously, avoid sin, do good works.
14 Nov 21
@rajk999 saidFor the last time, I have never said it was wrong to keep the commandments, live righteously, avoid sin, or do good works. These are accusations springing from your imagination and assumptions on what I believe, which are untrue; you cannot produce quotes of me saying those things; you are making it up. Moreover, I don't speak for the church I go to; I'm not quoting church doctrine, so you are also wrong there as well. It isn't things I have said that you can point to make these accusations; it isn't something you can point to; it is only found between your ears.
What your church preaches comes out of your mouth.
Who cares what the name of your church is.
So you think Jesus Christ, Paul and all the Apostles were wrong to tell people to keep the commandments, live righteously, avoid sin, do good works.
Working out what to believe, how to act should be done with the utmost care, what it is we are putting our faith in, Jesus Christ or our efforts. He is our Savior; it is He who redeems us; without Him, we can do nothing. It isn't Jesus and works, it is Jesus then we work.
Philippians 2
Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
14 Nov 21
@kellyjay saidYou said someone who does these things is practicing WORKS SALVATION
For the last time, I have never said it was wrong to keep the commandments, live righteously, avoid sin, or do good works.
What is that? That expression is not in the bible it. sachurch expression and it is a derogatory expression designed to discourage people from doing good works
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15 Nov 21
8 edits
"(For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.)
For when the Gentiles, who have no law, do by nature the things of the law, these, though they have no law, are a law to themselves,
Who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness with it and their reasonings, one with the other , accusing or even excusing them.) In the day when God judges the secrets of men according to my gospel through Jesus Christ." (Rom. 2:13-16)
In this section of Romans Paul is explaining that man before he fell was created out of the shoot "very good" (Gen. 1:31). Before he was poisoned by the sin nature in following the Devil, man was created good. That good part is still there beneath his corruption from the fall.
That good PART of man, though overcome by the sinning nature, is a restricting and breaking factor. It is a restriction somewhat arresting man's total decline into moral corruption.
If the nations who have the good nature written on their hearts obey some of it this will be like a breaking factor restricting man's total fall into corruption.
The good part of man created by God in him acts as a breaking system restricting total moral decline. Its work is written on their God designed heart's conscience.
15 Nov 21
@kellyjay saidCould you explain what is 'works salvation', and where is it explaned in the bible ?
For the last time, I have never said it was wrong to keep the commandments, live righteously, avoid sin, or do good works. These are accusations springing from your imagination and assumptions on what I believe, which are untrue; you cannot produce quotes of me saying those things; you are making it up. Moreover, I don't speak for the church I go to; I'm not quoting church d ...[text shortened]... fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
15 Nov 21
@sonship saidBaloney.
[b]"(For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.)
For when the Gentiles, who have no law, do by nature the things of the law, these, though they have no law, are a law to themselves,
Who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness with it and their reasonings, o ...[text shortened]... ystem restricting total moral decline. Its work is written on their God designed heart's conscience.