Pray reading is the slippery slope to chanting, repetition and charlatan mumbo-jumbo.
Your paranoia is a dropping off CLIFF rather than a slippery slope.
Your EAGERNESS to automatically imagine the worst is a cliff of stupidity evidence of your salivating to accuse Christians who love God and His word.
You're salivating to make accusation because you hate God and the lovers of God.
Don't waste your breath denying it.
Folks, you will not go crazy by praying with the words of the Bible.
Why would an atheist CARE how believers dive into the Scriptures for nourishment, edification, and enjoyment of God's speaking to them?
Look at how people make fools of themselves yelling and waving their hands at some stupid rock concert or basket ball game.
And this con-man thinks praying with the words of the Bible is a slippery slope?
A slope to get out of atheism to contact the living God it is.
@sonship saidYou can teach that nonsense all you like the fact is nobody in the bible says any such thing. Only your braindead local church dunces will nod in agreement.
@Rajk999
[quote] Regardless, at the end of most of these letters of Paul [if not all], Paul warns the very same Christian saints, who are saved by grace, justified by faith, sanctified by the blood of Christ who have the Holy Spirit, who are redeemed, who think they have eternal life [like you for example], that IF if they did not live righteously, there is no eternal lif ...[text shortened]... olks, a person born again cannot be unborn again no matter how much Rajk999 doesn't understand this.
NO INHERITANCE
MEANS
NO INHERITANCE
YOU IDIOT.
Who said anything about being unborn... you are such a fool. Was Jesus mistaken when he warned the saved born again Saints that their names will be removed from the book of life? That means they are cast into the lake of fire. Where the hell did you fabricate temporary punishment... you stupid man. Nobody has to be unborn.... they are destroyed.
@Rajk999
It means in those verses that WHILE they are in that condition they will have no inheritance. Every believers total sanctification is inevitable.
And it did not say the gift of eternal life is revoked and they are un-born of God.
@Rajk999
The New Testament shows Jesus teaching that some servants are disciplined "UNTIL" a certain lesson was learned. Ie. Matthew 18:34.
If it was eternal punishment then there would be no terminating point indicated by the word "UNTIL".
That means that at His second coming some of His servants will receive TEMPORARY punishment. The severity may vary depending on the seriousness of the lesson which needs to be learned.
Nice try. But it hasn't worked in years passed. And it still doesn't.
@sonship saidYour bible twisting has not worked in years
@Rajk999
The New Testament shows Jesus teaching that some servants are disciplined "UNTIL" a certain lesson was learned. Ie. Matthew 18:34.
If it was eternal punishment then there would be no terminating point indicated by the word "UNTIL".
That means that at His second coming some of His servants will receive TEMPORARY punishment. The s ...[text shortened]... which needs to be learned.
Nice try. But it hasn't worked in years passed. And it still doesn't.
.only you believe that nonsense.
@sonship saidNo inheritance, does not mean temporary punishment, except in your deluded little mind. .Here, twist these if you can:
@Rajk999
The New Testament shows Jesus teaching that some servants are disciplined "UNTIL" a certain lesson was learned. Ie. Matthew 18:34.
If it was eternal punishment then there would be no terminating point indicated by the word "UNTIL".
That means that at His second coming some of His servants will receive TEMPORARY punishment. The s ...[text shortened]... which needs to be learned.
Nice try. But it hasn't worked in years passed. And it still doesn't.
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. (2 Peter 2:20-21 KJV)
... when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 KJV)
Here the reference is to Christian Saints in Christ, who are saved, born again, sanctified, justified, with the Holy Spirit, redemend and they have eternal life [or so they foolishly thought] ...
Read it .. if they do not obey the commandments of Christ .... THEY ARE DESTROYED
Romans 5:15
But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
@kellyjay saidWhenever a Christian can only repeat like a parrot the first principle of the oracles of God, he is an immature Christian. All Christians here because of the influence of their church have failed to mature into teachers of the Gospel of Christ, and need a teacher themselves to help them move toward righteousness and good works. Mature Christians know and understand the importance of righteousness and can discern good and evil.... this ability comes from the meat of the word of God.
Romans 5:15
But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. (Hebrews 5:12-14 KJV)
You are a little child. You have been posting the same elementary first principles for years. Time to grow up.
@Rajk999
Have you even begun to grow yet?
Are you born again?
In the past you argued a big Ie. - "No, no, no, no, Born Again only relates to the resurrection - in the future."
Don't think someone doesn't notice the irony.
Yes, you use the word resurrection but according some other dictionary
besides the New Testament.
"Born Again" in John 3 is defined in your teaching by resurrection.
The resurrection of Jesus was not really a physical one.
Yes, you refer to the phrases but not as the New Testament teaches them.
And I think you CONCEAL this stealth. Like, whistling and "business as usual" will
probably be your response to this post.
Now if I am wrong on both points you have plenty of leeway to show me specifically that I am wrong about you. If you showed me I was wrong I would retract publicly because I am interested in the truth.
1.) YOUR "born again" is not that of the New Testament. Your "born again" is related to some resurrection at the end of the age. I think the term you liked in the past was "spirit creatures". Which term incidentally has Watchtower influence all over it imo.
2.) YOUR "resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" is not that of the New Testament - bodily, physically. Its your "spirit creature" thing.
IF you're so mature a teacher than make me RETRACT what I have analyzed above. If you're so much a "MEAT" man and have graduated from the oracles of the beginning of the Christ, explain my how my charge is wrong.
@sonship said15 years of first principles and you are still stuck on basics. I guess you are one of those Paul spoke of who cannot progress to the meat of the word of God, and that is righteousness, good works and the ability to discern good from evil.
@Rajk999
Have you even begun to grow yet?
Are you born again?
In the past you argued a big Ie. - "No, no, no, no, Born Again only relates to the resurrection - in the future."
Don't think someone doesn't notice the irony.
Yes, you use the word resurrection but according some other dictionary
besides the New Testament.
...[text shortened]... have graduated from the oracles of the beginning of the Christ, explain my how my charge is wrong.
Rajk999 re-employs a challenge to the assurance of eternal redemption.
No inheritance, does not mean temporary punishment, except in your deluded little mind. .Here, twist these if you can:
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. (2 Peter 2:20-21 KJV)
There are levels of severity that call for levels of discipline.
And I feel this passage is on the most serious end of the spectrum.
While you may say it absolutely reveals eternal punishment I would not take it as such.
For example, "If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." ( 1 Cor. 3:15)
First, it is evident that when the Lord Jesus decides the rewards or discipline to those entering into the millennial kingdom, SOME will suffer loss though they are still eternally redeemed.
Now how much "loss" can a eternally saved person "suffer?" That is the business of God. That is the business of HIS determination.
The spectrum of possible sufferings of loss is in the hands of Christ the Righteous Judge. Since it is open ended we can only know there is a warning to ALL of us believers that loss could be suffered . . . "but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."
WHATEVER the degree of "suffer loss" under God's providence and Christ's authority it probably cannot exceed one thousand years in duration. For all the saints have been perfected by the time of the new heaven and new earth in which only righteousness dwells.
So I admit that your 2 Peter 3:21,22 is taken by some as indication of revoking of the gift of eternal life. I believe it falls within the sphere of "suffer loss. but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."
Now some people who I respect and would learn from have offered another possibility. I will not go into it here.
As for your other proof terxt:
... when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 KJV)
The context reveals those are unbelievers who either - "do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ." (v.8)
Here the reference is to Christian Saints in Christ, who are saved, born again, sanctified, justified, with the Holy Spirit, redemend and they have eternal life [or so they foolishly thought] ...
The Holy Spirit is not given on loan. He was given to the believers to be with them FOREVER.
"And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may be with you FOREVER, even the Spirit of reality, . . . etc." (John 14:16,17a)
The Holy Spirit is dispensed into all believers defeated, overcoming, victorious, backslidden, FOREVER. He is not on LOAN temporarily.
We are told not to GREIVE the Holy Spirit. (Eph. 4:30)
It is possible for a receiver of the Spirit to so grieve the Spirit.
And for that there may be the loss of reward and the suffering of loss.
How much God can cause one to "suffer loss" yet still have the Holy Spirit in the kingdom age is the preview of God.
Read it .. if they do not obey the commandments of Christ .... THEY ARE DESTROYED
The Holy Spirit is given as a pledge, a guarantee of the final possession of the inheritance of salvation.
" . . . the Spirit of the promise, Who is the pledge of our inheritane unto the redemption of the acquired possession, to the praise of His glory." (Eph. 13c-14)
That does not mean we can jump to any conclusion that that ties God's hands and He cannot discipline His children ON THEIR WAY to perfection.
The believer has been firmly attached and SEALED with the Holy Spirit.
"But the One who firmly attaches us with you unto Christ and has anointed us is God, He who has also sealed us and given the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge." (2 Cor. 1:2,3)
1.) Just because the Holy Spirit is given to the believer forever doesn't mean a life of grieving the Holy Spirit cannot meet with the suffering of loss when the millennial kingdom comes.
2.) Just because a Christian receives the Holy Spirit as a pledge of eventual inheritance doesn't mean temporary suffering of loss, infliction of discipline, education of punishment is impossible during the thousand year millennial kingdom.
3.) Just because the one firmly attached to Christ and having the Spirit as a pledge doesn't mean a Christian could not be saved yet through fire, suffering loss.
And in some cases when some had received much light and grace from God which they squandered grieving the Holy Spirit they might say -
" I am so punished now that it would have been better for me if I had not known so much about Jesus, and wasted that grace on disobedient backsliding."
I certainly don't want to be like that. And I don't encourage any other believers to put themselves in a condition that that might be their state before the Lord.
@Rajk999
We can talk about Hebrews meat and milk, good word of Christ and word of righteousness all week. We can talk about the word of the beginning and the foundation and the word of righteousness from Hebrews all week.
You don't come with "meat" of the word. And your "milk" is arsenic.
Your intention is to poison the believers. So there is no wonder in that.
No confession that Jesus is YOUR LORD.
No explanation of born again not just meaning resurrection.
No clarification of the "spirit creature" resurrection of Jesus not involving His physical body.
@sonship saidAnother bigmouth talker. Nothing about the meat of the word of God - righteousness and good works.
Rajk999 re-employs a challenge to the assurance of eternal redemption.
No inheritance, does not mean temporary punishment, except in your deluded little mind. .Here, twist these if you can:
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the ...[text shortened]... have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. (2 Peter 2:20-21 KJV)
@sonship saidThe milk is the first principles of the Kingdom of God.
@Rajk999
We can talk about Hebrews meat and milk, good word of Christ and word of righteousness all week. We can talk about the word of the beginning and the foundation and the word of righteousness from Hebrews all week.
You don't come with "meat" of the word. And your "milk" is arsenic.
Your intention is to poison the believers. So ...[text shortened]...
No clarification of the "spirit creature" resurrection of Jesus not involving His physical body.
The meat is the teachings of Christ regarding righteousness and good works
Of course that is arsenic to you because you are Satan.