The gospel

@sonship said
@Rajk999


If I was to send someone to somebody here to know Christ, I would refer them to Kelly 100 times more than I would recommend they talk to you. And you can talk about "commandments, commandments, commandments" until the day you go off to your reward, whatever it is. You don't fool some of us.

The people who most appreciate you and come along to pat you on ...[text shortened]... d perceive you that you are opposing the Lord Jesus Christ. And they catch on and usually empathize.

You are as smart as a bucket of nails.

Faith is nothing unless it is followed up by GOOD WORKS
You dont know Christ until you start keeping the commandments.
Christ does not know you until you start keeping the commandments

Do you want the reference for that again?

@rajk999 said
I can see in your posts, a whole lot of statements casting condemnation on many people, that you do not know either.

Its about what Jesus says. The righteous who have done good works will get eternal life. Others like you who are condemning Jesus for preaching about good works will be cast out.

All have sinned and fall short, you dispute that?

@kellyjay said
All have sinned and fall short, you dispute that?

Jesus has the perfect answer for your false doctrines -

All have sinned
Nobody is good except God
BUT YOU STILL HAVE TO KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS
Do you dispute that?

What I dont get is how can someone who professes faith, claims to know Christ, and goes to church and prays and does so many outwardly religious things, fight tooth and nail against the keeping of the commandments, which Jesus said over and over you MUST DO before you get eternal life ? Truly incredible

You and sonship must be children of the Devil.

@rajk999 said
Jesus has the perfect answer for your false doctrines -

All have sinned
Nobody is good except God
BUT YOU STILL HAVE TO KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS
Do you dispute that?

What I dont get is how can someone who professes faith, claims to know Christ, and goes to church and prays and does so many outwardly religious things, fight tooth and nail against the keeping of the comm ...[text shortened]... DO before you get eternal life ? Truly incredible

You and sonship must be children of the Devil.

All have sinned agree.
No one is good except God agree.
You still have to keep the commandments agree.

I am not disputing any of that.
Never have and will not.

None of those things are in dispute.

All of those were true before Jesus came to earth.

@kellyjay said
All have sinned agree.
No one is good except God agree.
You still have to keep the commandments agree.

I am not disputing any of that.
Never have and will not.

None of those things are in dispute.

All of those were true before Jesus came to earth.

Right, and you are now going down that dangerous road churches take, that Paul warned against.

Here it is -
Before Jesus came nobody could be righteous and nobody could do good works. So when Jesus came his death and resurrection made it possible for people to continue with their normal lives [devoid of good works], and still get eternal life with just a profession of faith. That is the Good News of the churches....
Im a filthy sinner .. hallelujah
Praise the Lord, Jesus died for my sins
Im going to heaven, because He took all my sins away
I dont have to do any good works Praise the Lord

That in a nutshell is the most dangerous false doctrine devised by man and it is promoted by you, sonship and several others.

@rajk999 said
Right, and you are now going down that dangerous road churches take, that Paul warned against.

Here it is -
Before Jesus came nobody could be righteous and nobody could do good works. So when Jesus came his death and resurrection made it possible for people to continue with their normal lives [devoid of good works], and still get eternal life with just a profession of f ...[text shortened]... most dangerous false doctrine devised by man and it is promoted by you, sonship and several others.

Did the thief on the cross make it?
What did he do?
Beyond that, who says we will not do good works?
If you are going to claim that I have ever said it, produce a quote.
When I say the whole Bible, I'm saying that every truth we bring to the table has to line up with the rest of scripture unless you are willing to say throw the Bible out; it is a book of confusion that is supposed to be God's Word, and it isn't.

If there is conflict, it will be mainly due to our lousy understanding of something, not errors. So when we say we will and should do good works, the Bible backs us up on that, I don't believe we disagree, and we are not in conflict with any scripture.

The book of Galatians is not in disagreement with the rest of the Bible; we will be doing good works, our works will be judged, but our justification will be by believing in Jesus Christ, not our human effort, but the work of our redeemer.

Galatians 2:16
yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law, but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Titus 3
But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works.

We are to devote ourselves to good works, UNDENIABLE, there is no rationale suggesting that we are NOT to do good works, but only that it is Jesus Christ who is our Savior who saves us, not our human effort.

Romans 9
What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, as it is written,

“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense;
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

@kellyjay said
Did the thief on the cross make it?
What did he do?
Beyond that, who says we will not do good works?
If you are going to claim that I have ever said it, produce a quote.
When I say the whole Bible, I'm saying that every truth we bring to the table has to line up with the rest of scripture unless you are willing to say throw the Bible out; it is a book of confusion that i ...[text shortened]... one of stumbling, and a rock of offense;
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

Praise the Lord, you are going to heaven.
The rest of us will be burning in hell for eternity.
Lucky you.

@rajk999 said
Praise the Lord, you are going to heaven.
The rest of us will be burning in hell for eternity.
Lucky you.

What does the scripture say?

@rajk999 said
Praise the Lord, you are going to heaven.
The rest of us will be burning in hell for eternity.
Lucky you.

No reply to the points made? I took what you asked seriously?

@kellyjay said
What does the scripture say?

No man goes to heaven

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (John 3:13 KJV)
For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, (Acts 2:34 KJV)

@rajk999 said
No man goes to heaven

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (John 3:13 KJV)
For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, (Acts 2:34 KJV)

I was simply using your words about heaven or hell. Why you said something you don't believe you can worry about it isn't essential to me.

What is important are the points I brought up and the scripture references used. Are you going to talk about that or not? If we are all about truth, all about scripture, this seems to be the most important thing we could discuss, what makes us right with God?

@kellyjay said
I was simply using your words about heaven or hell. Why you said something you don't believe you can worry about it isn't essential to me.

What is important are the points I brought up and the scripture references used. Are you going to talk about that or not? If we are all about truth, all about scripture, this seems to be the most important thing we could discuss, what makes us right with God?

For you important points and truth are scripture references, because you seem to worship the bible and the scripture. In case you did not notice, I rarely mention scripture when Im posting what I consider truth and what is important.

For me the teachings of Jesus Christ is what is truth and what is important for eternal life. .. nothing else. So your scripture about what Paul said, really means very little to me, because I have the teachings which are greater than yours

The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here. (Matthew 12:41-42 KJV)

The teachings of Jonah and Solomon are representative of the scripture, and a greater than what is taught in the scripture, has spoken , yet you foolishly like the Xcribes and Pharisees refuse to listen to the Son of God. You seem to think that the writings of Paul are more important that the Gospel of Christ.

@rajk999 said
For you important points and truth are scripture references, because you seem to worship the bible and the scripture. In case you did not notice, I rarely mention scripture when Im posting what I consider truth and what is important.

For me the teachings of Jesus Christ is what is truth and what is important for eternal life. .. nothing else. So your scripture about what ...[text shortened]... e, has spoken , yet you foolishly like the Xcribes and Pharisees refuse to listen to the Son of God.

If scripture isn't our plumb line for truth, why do you refer to it to prove your points while claiming others' beliefs are wrong? It isn't the Bible I worship; it's the God who it points to, the one referenced in it. It is true; it is a document of historical importance, moral importance, and spiritual importance. Unlike our opinions *yes, I'm including mine too* it is trustworthy when it's taken in full of grasping the truth in it. If we pick and choose to only look at it by forcing our views into it, we make it say what we want, but if we take it on its face, it will show us the truth where we have to alter our way of thinking to conform to God's truth.

All of your references to Jesus Christ come from scripture, or do you have something more you use? All of your references to the Apostles' words come from scripture, or do you have something more you use? If you tell me something is wrong and quote the Bible to prove it by referencing it, why do you think it odd when I do the same? I would have to alter my thinking if you showed me in scripture that I'm twisting something I believe by making the scripture say something it does not say in the written context.

Jesus was pointing to the fact that given the facts before those He was talking to, they saw something much more impressive than Jonah, those in Nineveh grasped the truth with much less shown them. It is a truth that Jesus points to several times; we will be held accountable when we say we know. Those that claim to see that claim to understand will have no excuse. Those that condemn for something they themselves do will have no excuse, those that don't forgive will not be forgiven, they will have no excuse. When we stand before God every secret will be laid bare out in the open for all to see, every word, every thought, every deed done and not done, and only truth will matter, not excuses.

So you going to answer my questions to you as I answered yours?

@kellyjay said
If scripture isn't our plumb line for truth, why do you refer to it to prove your points while claiming others' beliefs are wrong? It isn't the Bible I worship; it's the God who it points to, the one referenced in it. It is true; it is a document of historical importance, moral importance, and spiritual importance. Unlike our opinions *yes, I'm including mine too* it is trus ...[text shortened]... y truth will matter, not excuses.

So you going to answer my questions to you as I answered yours?

That is a jumbled mess of a confused mind ... You really need to learn to write clearly.

My position is that I place the teachings and Gospel of Jesus Christ ABOVE EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE BIBLE. I do that because I believe Christ when he said that He is the Way to eternal life, He is the truth about eternal life, He is the one who gives eternal life.

Your position is that all of scripture stands on the same footing. I understand that. Therefore we have very little in common.

If you have a question ask it clearly and concisely. Asking me what does scripture say is not a proper question. Try again.

@rajk999 said
That is a jumbled mess of a confused mind ... You really need to learn to write clearly.

My position is that I place the teachings and Gospel of Jesus Christ ABOVE EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE BIBLE. I do that because I believe Christ when he said that He is the Way to eternal life, He is the truth about eternal life, He is the one who gives eternal life.

Your position is t ...[text shortened]... ask it clearly and concisely. Asking me what does scripture say is not a proper question. Try again.

It isn't the same footing; there are lies spoken in the scripture, so in the context, you have to view it all in context; the truth in it will not in context disagree with the truth in it elsewhere in scripture. Jesus will not contradict Jesus; the truth He spoke will be the truth always, the Apostles will not contradict the truth either, truth is always absolute, it is always true, everywhere at all times to all people. God is One; there is no contradiction in Him, there aren't lies to found in God, there is no darkness in God, which is why when Jesus said He is the Truth, what He said always was, is, and will be true.

So you are saying things that stand in direct opposition to the scriptures I pointed out to you, and so far, you only besmirch me degrading my understanding. How about looking at what I asked and answering me? I get we disagree about scripture, but I'm not attempting to insult your intelligence or anything about you as you have been doing to me.