Originally posted by 667joeJesus is the only one that can save. If you were walking on a bridge over a chasm and the bridge broke but before you fell a person offered you a saving hand to pull you free and you refused it... Would you then say that it was that person's fault that you fell? Of course not! Jesus doesn't send you to hell he allows you to go there if you have not chosen the only path that can save you. Being the gentleman that he is he simply let's you go where you want to go.
Can some one explain to me how Jesus could be moral for sending a person to hell just because said person did not believe in him (Jesus)?
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"I believe in purgatory, but not hell.
After all, if you think about it, it doesn't make sense, not to my way of thinking anyway.
If god is love, then I dont believe anyone will be fried FOREVER."
Agree with you entirely on that one! If there is a "hell" then I believe that God (if God is love, or if love is the highest quality of God) will always allow someone in "hell" to be "forgiven" and return into the "heavenly fold".
A loving God will always allow one to be redeemed - IMHO.
From a phsychological perspective you can tell a lot about a person by their understanding of "God" - if they believe in one.
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Originally posted by chappy1Suppose after being in "hell" you decide to repent - do you get another chance?
Jesus is the only one that can save. If you were walking on a bridge over a chasm and the bridge broke but before you fell a person offered you a saving hand to pull you free and you refused it... Would you then say that it was that person's fault that you fell? Of course not! Jesus doesn't send you to hell he allows you to go there if you have not chosen th ...[text shortened]... hat can save you. Being the gentleman that he is he simply let's you go where you want to go.
Originally posted by kbear1kNo. According to the Bible a person lives only once and then dies and is judged. Once you die your destiny is sealed based on your faith or lack thereof. You only get one chance so I suggest you take advantage of the chance you're given and believe in the only one with the authority to save you.
Suppose after being in "hell" you decide to repent - do you get another chance?
Originally posted by kbear1kI asked my friend once what he was waiting for? Why didn't he believe and he said he'd make his decision when he's dead and knew for sure what was true and what wasn't. I told him by then it would be too late and that you have to make your decision before you die. He didn't know how to respond to that like he'd never thought of that before. The greatest lie the devil ever told was the one that says, "you have all the time in the world to make your decision on who Jesus is." You must make your decision NOW.
Suppose after being in "hell" you decide to repent - do you get another chance?
Originally posted by kbear1kHell is one of the greatest mind control tactics ever invented. It allows evangelicals to pressure people into making an instant decision, like some bad used car salesman. If they admitted that God might give people in hell a second chance, then there would be hope for those who believed differently, despite best intentions, and the evangelicals wouldn't win as many converts.
Suppose after being in "hell" you decide to repent - do you get another chance?
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Originally posted by chappy1Where does it say that in the Bible?
No. According to the Bible a person lives only once and then dies and is judged. Once you die your destiny is sealed based on your faith or lack thereof. You only get one chance so I suggest you take advantage of the chance you're given and believe in the only one with the authority to save you.
Originally posted by DowardI wasn't really presuming anything. Instead, I was merely rephrasing the question in the orginal post.
third: Is there a hell? Fourth: If there is a hell, then what is it's nature.
You presume too much....
I don't presume there is a God or a hell. But if so, how can God be moral and merciful, if letting (or sending) a good person go to hell simply because the person did not accept Jesus as savior.
As an aside, what if it is all a cruel hoax. That the Bible is written by Satan as a trick. Instead, the reality is that God sends the sheeple who accept Jesus as savior to hell, and sends the people who have the courage or free thought to reject Jesus as savior to heaven.
Lastly, I have heard hell isn't that bad. That you get an 8-ball of cocaine, sxipack of beer, and two prostitues when you get to hell, if you are into that kind of stuff. But wouldn't do much for me.
Originally posted by chappy1I was always thought of it as more arbitrary.
Jesus is the only one that can save. If you were walking on a bridge over a chasm and the bridge broke but before you fell a person offered you a saving hand to pull you free and you refused it... Would you then say that it was that person's fault that you fell? Of course not! Jesus doesn't send you to hell he allows you to go there if you have not chosen th ...[text shortened]... hat can save you. Being the gentleman that he is he simply let's you go where you want to go.
In other words, in your scenario of falling from a bridge, Jesus could reach and grab either one of your extended hands, but he will only grab an extended left hand (i.e., the preson accepting Jesus as savior).
Thus, if you extend only your right hand (i.e., a good person not accepting Jesus as savior) , and let you fall, though Jesus could have grabbed the extended right hand and stopped you from falling to hell.
Originally posted by moon1969From an evolutionary point of view, it is just a random thing with no
I was always thought of it as more arbitrary.
In other words, in your scenario of falling from a bridge, Jesus could reach and grab either one of your extended hands, but he will only grab an extended left hand (i.e., the preson accepting Jesus as savior).
Thus, if you extend only your right hand (i.e., a good person not accepting Jesus as savior) ...[text shortened]... l, though Jesus could have grabbed the extended right hand and stopped you from falling to hell.
rhyme or reason involved. So good luck to you atheist.
Merry Christmas to all.
1.)
If there is an ultimate and final good, final goodness and beauty, a final rightness, and righteousness, a final Governor with a final adminisration of final rightness, justice, equity, beyond which there is no other umpire or decider - a final and perfect Arbitrator
AND
2.) there is a free will to decide, to choose, to determine which course one wants to take, to discreminate between two paths, whose freedom will not and cannot be usurped or interfered with, whose choice is sovereign to that created being
THEN
3.) it makes sense that there is an ultimate offense possible - an revolt and contrariness from which there is no remedy, a final rebellious decision,
then I think "eternal punishment" though terrible, makes sense.
Since my posts are always too long and people don't bother to read them sometimes, reluctntly, I have to stop here. This of course leaves plenty of room for things left unsaid which the critic may point out as gaping "problems".
Originally posted by jaywillYeah shorter posts are generally more effective.
1.)
If there is an ultimate and final good, final goodness and beauty, a final rightness, and righteousness, a final Governor with a final adminisration of final rightness, justice, equity, beyond which there is no other umpire or decider - a final and perfect Arbitrator
AND
2.) there is a free will to decide, to choose, to determine which co ...[text shortened]... plenty of room for things left unsaid which the critic may point out as gaping "problems".