23 Dec 11
Originally posted by karoly aczel
Would you say that we have free will, to allign ourselves with "God's Will"?
This is the sort of psychological idea(s) that I could work with.
Remember I see "sin" as "god-eclipsing" , so it's not necessarily just a matter of not committing a "bad act" (as I see christians explain sin).
To take another path to this I would remind you of what ...[text shortened]... ithout which there will be no success (for that little sperm )
Would you say that we have free will, to allign ourselves with "God's Will"?
When the head of humanity, the first man Adam, disobeyed God he was constituted with a foreign element. This foreign element, this sin nature is like a parasite that has attached itself to mankind.
In the example of a mother who warns her child not to drink a certain bottle of liquid because it is poison. Now the child disobeys. The child has two problems.
First the child has disobeyed the mother and has become a transgressor. But aside from that the poisoness liquid has also entered into the child's system constituting the child a poisoned person.
In one sense the only instruction God gave to Adam the head of humanity was to be careful what he ate. We so no commandment to worship the right way. We see no commandment not to steal. We see no commandment to love his wife. We see no commandment to not lie.
The only commandement was not to EAT something - not to take something INTO his very being. It is from this disobeying that man was constituted with a poisoness sinful nature of Satan. He was in some way infested with an evil element that has attached himself to man as a killing parasite.
The choice of every man today, is take into his being another One as divine life. This life can swallow up the effects of the poisoness Satanic nature. The choice is to realize that we are separated from God and corrupted and believe into another One - to get into an "organic" union with the Son of God. He is the Redeemer, the Savior, the Lord who became a divine life giving Spirit to get into us.
I don't know too much about karma except "bad karma" must be some culture's or some religion's way of discribing perhaps sin and death or the byproducts of sin.
23 Dec 11
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Originally posted by kbear1kI believe someone has already informed you that God does not send His
So we are judged at the moment of death and it is final? Who's to say that God will not at a later time re-address the issue. After all does not God want all of his/her sheep to return to the fold?...and if God is all-loving why would God send his/her children to eternal damnation? Would you do that to your child? What about the parable of the Good Samaritan. If God is eternal would not God want to spend eternity trying to bring his/her children home?
children to eternal damnation. If you are really a Christian why do you
say his/her?
23 Dec 11
Originally posted by RJHindsYou miss the main points.
My advise to you is to forget about what "eastern mystics" say about karma.
Instead pay attention to what is written in the scriptures of the Holy Bible
and what Jesus says. Once you understand the teachings of Jesus, you will
no longer need any system of psychology.
Eastern mysticism is not a choice against christianity, it is just another choice that I make to enrich my life. To take the best from all religions and leave the rest behind(is my way).
I do not draw the line of my spirituality at christianity, there are so many wonderful facets that could actually enrich and make you possibly see the bible different or new.
I'n not saying get rid of your christianity , I'm saying add to it. Make it better. Make it worldly, as it is supposed to be, just give you some basic anchoring in your belief system, from there you can branch out and see other ideas for what they really are- just another type of people basically with the same questions as you and I. Just others seeking christ conciousness, or "heaven". You see we, can work in christianity with new age ideas quite easily. I mean the concept of karma has a common element in christianity withe the "Golden Rule" .Karma is not so different from that. Although that golden rule stuff is only part of the theory of karma.
THere are more aspects to Karma than there are to the golden rule in christianity.
23 Dec 11
Originally posted by jaywillYes, you are right about bad karma. But that should not be a problem for two worldly and giving gents such as ourselves.Would you say that we have free will, to allign ourselves with "God's Will"?
When the head of humanity, the first man Adam, disobeyed God he was constituted with a foreign element. This foreign element, this sin nature is like a parasite that has attached itself to mankind.
In the example of a mother who warns her child not to ...[text shortened]... or some religion's way of discribing perhaps sin and death or the byproducts of sin.
I imagine you would be incurring plenty of good karma and dishing wisely to those who would appreciate it 🙂
I liked your bible story, but I wonder how much of that is literal. You know stuff like that story often gives me the feeling that there may be something hidden in that tale that only certain people understand.
For me, I have to say that there has to be at least a few "un-literal" comments which I can only take as allegory. Indeed I'm having trouble finding which bits exactly, perhaps I'll need another slow read .
23 Dec 11
Originally posted by jaywillWe have continued to add to the things we do that are not good for ourWould you say that we have free will, to allign ourselves with "God's Will"?
When the head of humanity, the first man Adam, disobeyed God he was constituted with a foreign element. This foreign element, this sin nature is like a parasite that has attached itself to mankind.
In the example of a mother who warns her child not to ...[text shortened]... or some religion's way of discribing perhaps sin and death or the byproducts of sin.
bodies.
23 Dec 11
1 edit
Originally posted by karoly aczel
Yes, you are right about bad karma. But that should not be a problem for two worldly and giving gents such as ourselves.
I imagine you would be incurring plenty of good karma and dishing wisely to those who would appreciate it 🙂
I liked your bible story, but I wonder how much of that is literal. You know stuff like that story often gives me the fee Indeed I'm having trouble finding which bits exactly, perhaps I'll need another slow read .
I liked your bible story, but I wonder how much of that is literal. You know stuff like that story often gives me the feeling that there may be something hidden in that tale that only certain people understand.
For me, I have to say that there has to be at least a few "un-literal" comments which I can only take as allegory. Indeed I'm having trouble finding which bits exactly, perhaps I'll need another slow read .
For some years I subconsciously held some reservations about the account of the eating of a fruit as literal. For some years as a Christian I had some reservation about taking the tree of the knowledge of good and evil as a literal tree.
Gradually, and eventually I changed my mind. And the chief reason I caved in was because of Romans chapter 7 where Paul speaks of the fallen body. I will not go into long detail here. But one thing Paul said was:
"For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but to work out the good is not." (Romans 7:18)
No good thing "dwells" in his flesh. Something happened to transmute the body of man into something in which some evil "dwells" in man's fallen body. How did this get there ? I believed that something entered into the body of man through eating.
I do not understand all of this. However, it doesn't surprise me that God would intentionaly use something elementary to teach man of profound spiritual truths. You are quite right that allegory is involved. But I eventually came to believe that something historical and also be allegorical.
God has the job to communicate His eternal purpose and the things of His economy to ages and ages of human beings in a "bottom line" kind of way that the most can understand.
So I eventually adopted a view that the simplicity of the account should not be confused with naivete. The story of Adam and Eve between two trees - the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was a divine ordained simplicity.
I think we are dealing with history and allegory of profound truths embodied in simplistic forms for the sake of universal communication.
23 Dec 11
Originally posted by 667joeA person is responsible for there own decisions. Whether a person has eternal life or is separated from the life of God is determined by said person's own choice.
Can some one explain to me how Jesus could be moral for sending a person to hell just because said person did not believe in him (Jesus)?
Can God be unjust? Is God unjust? Unthinkable!
23 Dec 11
Originally posted by josephwdepends on which god you're talking about.
A [b]person is responsible for there own decisions. Whether a person has eternal life or is separated from the life of God is determined by said person's own choice.
Can God be unjust? Is God unjust? Unthinkable![/b]
it also depends on how you are using the word "just"
for example, if you are referring to conforming to a standard of correctness, and god creates his own standard correctness, then you could say that he is "just" if he adheres to those rules of correctness.
the bible god is arguably unjust since he does not adhere to his own rules of correctness. he considers himself above justice.
now, if by "just" we are talking about conforming to fact and reason, then the argument could again be made that the bible god is unjust since all of his rules of correctness are not reasonable (eg: love me or else, raped woman must marry rapist, death penalty for picking up sticks on sabbath, etc).
now to the concept of punishment. people are indeed responsible for their own decisions. and it's funny how you phrase it as a choice to live separated from god. this is an absurd interpretation. it's not a choice of living separate from god, it's being punished by eternal torture for not believing in god during a finite life in which god made no direct presence known.
and who makes this judgement? who decides who is guilty and condemns them to this eternal torture? the most immoral being in the universe; that's who.
23 Dec 11
Originally posted by VoidSpiritYou numbnut, he is referring to the only true God.
depends on which god you're talking about.
it also depends on how you are using the word "just"
for example, if you are referring to conforming to a standard of correctness, and god creates his own standard correctness, then you could say that he is "just" if he adheres to those rules of correctness.
the bible god is arguably unjust since he doe ...[text shortened]... ns them to this eternal torture? the most immoral being in the universe; that's who.
23 Dec 11
Originally posted by kbear1kYes, but the problem is that a man's life is not eternal. He only has so much time to figure it out and make his decision. On the other hand, you can't say God is not being generous, man does have his entire life to make the decision. The rub here is that you never know when your number is up, so it's best to get this squared away early. Then there will always be those people who are too stubborn for their own good and refuse to make the decision. Those people have still made their choice.
So we are judged at the moment of death and it is final? Who's to say that God will not at a later time re-address the issue. After all does not God want all of his/her sheep to return to the fold?...and if God is all-loving why would God send his/her children to eternal damnation? Would you do that to your child? What about the parable of the Good Samaritan. If God is eternal would not God want to spend eternity trying to bring his/her children home?
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24 Dec 11
"On the other hand, you can't say God is not being generous, man does have his entire life to make the decision."
What happens to the folks who were not introduced to the Christian God? What happens to those who were raised with a background in say Eastern religions and due to their upbringing do not convert to Christianity? What happens to Jews who do not convert in their lifetime?
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24 Dec 11
Originally posted by RJHindsWhy should I refer to God soley as "he"? There is penty of female imagery relating to God in the bible. Don't you realize that the Bible was written in a male-centric society. I'll bet you don'y even have a clue how the various books were selected to go into the Christian Bible as well as the Hebrew Scriptures - you really have a lot to learn.
I believe someone has already informed you that God does not send His
children to eternal damnation. If you are really a Christian why do you
say his/her?
24 Dec 11
Originally posted by kbear1kTeach me, O wise one.
Why should I refer to God soley as "he"? There is penty of female imagery relating to God in the bible. Don't you realize that the Bible was written in a male-centric society. I'll bet you don'y even have a clue how the various books were selected to go into the Christian Bible as well as the Hebrew Scriptures - you really have a lot to learn.