What is it to be human?

@kellyjay said
Don't you resist urges today you know are bad and evil? I'd be willing to bet you do, and are a better person for it. Having an urge doesn't mean it has to be followed, being tempted doesn't mean we have to yield.

Yes, I resist doing things I know are evil. However, it helps to have a clear understanding of the consequences.

For example, I know I ought not drive recklessly, but it helps that I have experience being in car wrecks, having seen car wrecks, and the mutilated and dead bodies that can result.

Adam and Eve did not have a clear understanding of the consequences of their decision. They were told they would die if they ate the fruit, but they'd never seen death. They lived in a Utopian Paradise. They didn't even have an idea of what a bad day felt like.

Pit that against the natural curiosity we humans have, and God's stricture did not stand a chance.

It's like telling a child not to touch a hot stove. They always do it once anyhow. After that, the lesson is learned.

@divegeester

Who have I heard say it the most in this forum over the years...the cultists Galveston75 and Robbie Carrobie.

And now sonship. Well well well.

Good ole, guilt by association.

@divegeester said
Yes he made Adam in his image. Adam and in Adam was the entire human race...Did you bother to read my post where I comprehensively debunked your frankly silly opinion that all human beings are still born in the image of god?

Which post was that?

I have read all of your posts so far and no such post exists.

I remember you saying that man is born into iniquity, and then I responded by pointing out that original/ancestral sin and the image of God are not mutually exclusive concepts....

And then you took off again.

If you are going to believe in a heresy so confidently, you should at least have walls of text backing it up.

@fmf said
Everyone knows what answer? You are mistaken. Some Christians here believe that those who don't believe are tormented, while still conscious, in burning flames for eternity. They say that is what's in the Bible.

The overwhelming majority of Christians believe in a threshold of culpability based off of Luke 12:47.

What do you think about this doctrine?

Clearly, it qualifies greatly punishment within our tradition.

@kellyjay said
Do you ever tire of your obsession of asking someone about someone else' beliefs or statements?

it is almost like... if some Christian elsewhere did a poor job of defending some doctrine, it now somehow becomes a part of your burden that like 6 years ago FMF made "Grampy Bobby" look a little foolish -- or not. You can't really know because who knows. We aren't dealing with someone who is known for their honesty in portraying other's arguments.

@bigdoggproblem said
We are part of the Cosmos; if we have will and agency, so does it.

Does a rock have will and agency?

Would you say that a rock in Italy, a rock in Greece, and a rock in Brazil, along with a rock at the bottom of a pond in Tibet all have agency..?

I am guessing you would say no.

So why does the "Cosmos" have agency because humans have agency, but there is, say, no collective agency for disjoined rocks by virtue of being rocks..?

@bigdoggproblem said
Yes, I resist doing things I know are evil. However, it helps to have a clear understanding of the consequences.

For example, I know I ought not drive recklessly, but it helps that I have experience being in car wrecks, having seen car wrecks, and the mutilated and dead bodies that can result.

Adam and Eve did not have a clear understanding of the consequences o ...[text shortened]... a child not to touch a hot stove. They always do it once anyhow. After that, the lesson is learned.

I think they had all they needed, I know there have been times I've done things I knew I shouldn't have too. I agree it is easier to resist when the consequences are clearly understood and immediate. I still have to believe God telling them they would die was very clear and immediate, they understood it.

Yet even in the face of that, they wanted to believe the lie, and did so with just a little reasoning and justification, so what they wanted they found appealing could be theirs for the taking. It is what we do today with God's word and our actions, we don't take what He says seriously, and we too if we are not careful will reap the consequences of our disobedience as well, exactly as God says we will.

@divegeester said
This phrase has to be the most objectionable thing a religionist can say to an unbeliever. It’s sneering, condemning, mocking and ridiculing.

Who have I heard say it the most in this forum over the years...the cultists Galveston75 and Robbie Carrobie.

And now sonship. Well well well.

This is just ad hominem -- there seems to be an inexhaustible supply of ad hominem memories in Dive's memory banks.

He has merely stated that they have not understood and perhaps couples it with the implication that they are not trying to understand.

And you are the one who has joined all of those other excessive conclusions to it.

@bigdoggproblem said
Yes, I resist doing things I know are evil. However, it helps to have a clear understanding of the consequences.

For example, I know I ought not drive recklessly, but it helps that I have experience being in car wrecks, having seen car wrecks, and the mutilated and dead bodies that can result.

Adam and Eve did not have a clear understanding of the consequences o ...[text shortened]... a child not to touch a hot stove. They always do it once anyhow. After that, the lesson is learned.

Which is why this is one of the more profound stories in the Bible.

We were made to be curious and inquisitive by nature, right, and thus God knew that Adam & Eve would eat the fruit, but He also knew that we would have the opportunity to redeem ourselves with the "second Adam" (Christ).

More than it is a discussion on the perceived "fairness" of a thing, it is the discussion on the nature of man. And the reality that man enjoys now is the reality that man collectively deserves, and the reality that man experiences in the next life is the reality that each has earned from their time on earth.

@philokalia said
it is almost like... if some Christian elsewhere did a poor job of defending some doctrine, it now somehow becomes a part of your burden that like 6 years ago FMF made "Grampy Bobby" look a little foolish -- or not. You can't really know because who knows. We aren't dealing with someone who is known for their honesty in portraying other's arguments.

He doesn't seem to allow for truth outside of personal opinions.

@philokalia said
it is almost like... if some Christian elsewhere did a poor job of defending some doctrine, it now somehow becomes a part of your burden that like 6 years ago FMF made "Grampy Bobby" look a little foolish -- or not. You can't really know because who knows. We aren't dealing with someone who is known for their honesty in portraying other's arguments.

Was Grampy Bobby right or wrong about the "human" and "fully human" thing?

@kellyjay said
He doesn't seem to allow for truth outside of personal opinions.

I engage your personal opinions about the truth. What else is one to do on a message board dedicated to people sharing their personal opiinions?

@fmf said
Was Grampy Bobby right or wrong about the "human" and "fully human" thing?

I have no idea.

I wasn't posting here half a decade ago. I don't know what this guy thought. I've never read anything he ever posted

@philokalia said
I have no idea.

I wasn't posting here half a decade ago. I don't know what this guy thought. I've never read anything he ever posted

Well, let's put it to you another way.

As a Christian, do you make a distinction between being "human" on one hand and being "fully human" on the other?

Do you believe that being "fully human" is dependent on having "a relationship" with the Christian God?