What is it to be human?

@fmf said
How does your view line up with Pope John Paul II's view and how do these two views - or perhaps the common view you share with him - "line up with reality"?

I don't follow Popes period.

@kellyjay said
I don't follow Popes period.

Forget that he's a Pope. Forget that he's a Catholic. What about his ideas - which come from a believer in Jesus? Do they line up with yours?

@fmf said
But your version of Christianity has people who don't believe the same things ~ about a man who died 2,000 years ago ~ as you do being 'deservedly' "tormented in burning flames" for eternity.

You believe, your "sins" are forgiven, right? But if you 'don't believe', the exact same "sins" lead to neverending demented vengeful supernatural violence that appears to have no moral ...[text shortened]... he says religion gets in the way of what it truly means to be human and denigrates our commonality.

I'm not sure if this is the post you wanted me to address, if it isn't this one please make clear which one.

Worth isn't being addressed on judgment day, the worth was what was done to save all of humanity. The judgment where eternal life is played out has to do with the consequences of what we did, not what we are worth. The life we were given as a great gift from God, what we did with it is up to us, and each of us will give an account for it. Did we spend it wallowing in evil or love, since the whole of us got corrupted, our worth to God became evident in what He did to save us from our sins.

People who divide themselves putting some up and some down do it inside religion and out of it, making people the common thorn in the realm of denigrating our commonality. This shows us that the labels we put on ourselves and others only serve to divide not unite us.

The only thing that could unite us all has to be something much greater than all of us which is God. Anything less than that only serves to keep us apart forever, while God can unite us all, not all want Him, or to be united that is a choice we make. God open the door, made a way, not everyone cares to walk it and go through the door, and in the end their lives will be ruined missing the source and purpose for their lives.

@fmf said
I responded directly and promptly to your question but you have blanked it out. Oh well. Here's something relevant to our topic.

This is from an interview on BBC Radio 4 in 2009 with Cardinal Murphy O’Connor who was head of the Catholic Church in the UK at that time:

Interviewer: “A lot of church leaders speaking on national matters sound rather defensive but ...[text shortened]... re not fully human.”

Does this definition of "not fully human" resonate with anyone here?

I started responding to everything you said, and when you started responding to my attempts reply to you, you gave me more to respond to. If there is something you think I missed show it to me, I'm not going to play is this the one with you after I have attempted to speak to each.

@kellyjay said
I'm not sure if this is the post you wanted me to address, if it isn't this one please make clear which one.

Worth isn't being addressed on judgment day, the worth was what was done to save all of humanity. The judgment where eternal life is played out has to do with the consequences of what we did, not what we are worth. The life we were given as a great gift from God, w ...[text shortened]... the door, and in the end their lives will be ruined missing the source and purpose for their lives.

You asked me "What is your view of humanity?" and you've blanked out the answer for 17 or 18 thread pages. And now here you are pretending to not know or not be able to work out which was my answer to "What is your view of humanity?"

@kellyjay said
I started responding to everything you said, and when you started responding to my attempts reply to you, you gave me more to respond to. If there is something you think I missed show it to me, I'm not going to play is this the one with you after I have attempted to speak to each.

Does the definition of "not fully human" in the post you were responding to resonate with you?

@fmf said
Forget that he's a Pope. Forget that he's a Catholic. What about his ideas - which come from a believer in Jesus? Do they line up with yours?

Hard work for a Monday.

@wolfgang59 said
Please do not post any more of your views.

It's truth that matters, when we speak to it. If all we give are opinions than nothing sets one set of views above another. If what our opinions are don't line up with reality (truth) they don't carry any more weight than the next guys, but if they do, than truth is what makes it all important not our opinions. Even if we speak to truth and our words agree with what is real, anyone can still say, that is just an opinion, if they refuse to look for the reality of the matters.

@kellyjay said
It's truth that matters, when we speak to it. If all we give are opinions than nothing sets one set of views above another. If what our opinions are don't line up with reality (truth) they don't carry any more weight than the next guys, but if they do, than truth is what makes it all important not our opinions. Even if we speak to truth and our words agree with what is real, ...[text shortened]... nyone can still say, that is just an opinion, if they refuse to look for the reality of the matters.

All you ever do is give your opinion about "the truth". That's all anyone does when they talk of their faith or their lack of faith, me included. That's all anyone does. That's all that happens here.

@fmf said
Does the definition of "not fully human" in the post you were responding to resonate with you?

No, because neither are well defined. I would have to agree with duchess64 we talking about mermaids and people? What does it mean, how does that address worth too?

@kellyjay said
No, because neither are well defined. I would have to agree with duchess64 we talking about mermaids and people? What does it mean, how does that address worth too?

It's all in the content of the post you are desperately, desperately, desperately trying to dodge. Nothing sbout "mermaids" in it.

@kellyjay said
It's truth that matters, when we speak to it. If all we give are opinions than nothing sets one set of views above another. If what our opinions are don't line up with reality (truth) they don't carry any more weight than the next guys, but if they do, than truth is what makes it all important not our opinions. Even if we speak to truth and our words agree with what is real, ...[text shortened]... nyone can still say, that is just an opinion, if they refuse to look for the reality of the matters.

You claim that your opinions don’t matter, and yet you post dozens of times a day giving your opinion.

Here you say “it’s truth that matters, when we speak to it” carefully adding the “to” in order subtly change your sentence from:

“It’s truth that matters, when we speak it”

Or in fact when YOU speak it, isn’t that right?

@kellyjay said
No, because neither are well defined.

Neither are well defined? But it's crisp and concise and totally clear. I am human but you - as a Christian - are fully human. As an atheist, I am not fully human. The key to being fully human is like this: If you say that transcendent meaning that we call God has no place, then it is a diminishment of what it is to be a human because to be human in the sense that humanity is directed because it was made by God, if you leave that out then you are not fully human. That kind of thing.

@fmf said
Neither are well defined? But it's crisp and concise and totally clear. I am human but you - as a Christian - are fully human. As an atheist, I am not fully human. The key to being fully human is like this: If you say that transcendent meaning that we call God has no place, then it is a diminishment of what it is to be a human because to be human in the sense that humanity is di ...[text shortened]... because it was made by God, if you leave that out then you are not fully human. That kind of thing.

So in your opinion fully simply means connected the source of life?

@kellyjay said
So in your opinion fully simply means connected the source of life?

My opinion about being human is in my post about being human on page 2 in reply to your question, a reply you have blanked out for nigh on 20 thread pages.

What you are responding to now is the perspective of a Christian leader from a post you are desperately trying to dodge.