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28 May 18
Originally posted by @fmfWe've heard this story before.
I've given you 10 years of my time and you've come up empty-handed to my way of thinking. And I gave the kind of stuff you believe in nearly 30 years before that ~ until I finally realized that I didn't believe it anymore. How many more years do you think I should give it? Should your threats of supernatural punishment by way of eternal torture be having some effect on me, changing my mind, making me believe the stuff you say?
Say there is no eternal punishment, would that influence you to consider a Creator more likely than an uncreated material universe which is subject to laws of physics which cause it to run down and grow cold.
Would no eternal punishment make the prospect of a CREATED universe more possible ?
No?
Yes maybe?
28 May 18
Originally posted by @sonshipI don't know the age of the origin of the universe. I don't know whether it's No.1 or no.2 or no.3. I just don't. And, of course, neither do you.
You definitely believe # 1?
I suppose - if I had to plump for just one of them - I'd opt for no.1 - but it's just conjecture. It's certainly not something I "definitely believe". Do you not understand what I am saying? Like you, I don't know the age of the origin of the universe.
28 May 18
Originally posted by @sonshipOnce again: Should your threats of supernatural punishment by way of eternal torture be having some effect on me, changing my mind, making me believe the stuff you say?
We've heard this story before.
Say there is no eternal punishment, would that influence you to consider a Creator more likely than an uncreated material universe which is subject to laws of physics which cause it to run down and grow cold.
Would no eternal punishment make the prospect of a CREATED universe more possible ?
No?
Yes maybe?
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28 May 18
1 edit
FMF,
Let's assume I was wrong about God as an absolute Judge above which no more righteous a judge could be possible.
Would that prospect make a Divine Creator more possible to you? Or would you still think it is most likely that the universe always existed ?
28 May 18
Originally posted by @sonshipYour morally incoherent torturer god ideology has absolutely nothing to do with the age and the origin of the universe. Do you really think that because you have your conjecture about the age and the supernatural origin of the universe, that your torturer god ideology becomes morally incoherent?
Would no eternal punishment make the prospect of a CREATED universe more possible ?
No?
Yes maybe?
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28 May 18
1 edit
Originally posted by @fmfWhere did I threaten you. Quote me.
Once again: Should your threats of supernatural punishment by way of eternal torture be having some effect on me, changing my mind, making me believe the stuff you say?
If you leap off of the top of mount Everest over a cliff, you are certainly going to fall down and die.
Do you take that as a person threat against you?
28 May 18
Originally posted by @sonship[1] I don't know; I will tell you when it happens. [2] I don't know how long the universe has existed. I do not know.
[1]Would that prospect make a Divine Creator more possible to you? [2] Or would you still think it is most likely that the universe always existed ?
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28 May 18
5 edits
Originally posted by @fmfYou're dodging the creation questions by thrusting matters forward to the temperature of the lake of fire and torture.
Your morally incoherent torturer god ideology has absolutely nothing to do with the age and the origin of the universe. Do you really think that because you have your conjecture about the age and the supernatural origin of the universe, that your torturer god ideology becomes morally incoherent?
What do you think would be the characteristics of anyone who fulfilled possibility # 3 - a Creator?
Should your assumed commitment be wrong, do you think Whoever fit the bill for possility #3 should manifest some characteristics ?
Do you think, for instance, that they might display that they had authority over the laws of nature ?
Yes ?
No ?
28 May 18
Originally posted by @sonshipDasa used to tell me that what he believed was as "true" as the fact that if I put my hand in a flame it would burn. He'd say: FMF if you put your hand in a flame is it true that your flesh would burn? I'd answer, yes, Dasa. Well then FMF, he'd say, now you know... the truth that your hand will burn in a flame is every bit as "true" as blah blah blah [insert his religious dogma here].
If you leap off of the top of mount Everest over a cliff, you are certainly going to fall down and die.
You have some clincher analogy about falling off Mount Everest for me, do you sonship?
28 May 18
Originally posted by @sonshipWhere have I talked about "the temperature of the lake of fire"? You're making stuff up.
Your dodging the creation questions by thrusting matters forward to the temperature of the lake of fire and and torture.
But you did bring up non-believers being hung out burning on chains.
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28 May 18
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Originally posted by @fmf
Dasa used to tell me that what he believed was as "true" as the fact that if I put my hand in a flame it would burn. He'd say: FMF if you put your hand in a flame is it true that your flesh would burn? I'd answer, yes, Dasa. Well then FMF, he'd say, now you know... the truth that your hand will burn in a flame is every bit as "true" as blah blah blah [insert hi ...[text shortened]... here].
You have some clincher analogy about falling off Mount Everest for me, do you sonship?
Dasa ...
Not your Muslim neighbors.
Not Dasa.
You are talking to me. Face it.
You cautiously and tentatively leaning toward an eternal universe. Should you have to opt for a second choice, say #3 - a Creator.
Do you think that Creating Agent would in any way manifest the characteristics of Personhood ?
Yes.
No.
Commit. Which?
28 May 18
Originally posted by @sonshipI don't think they would have the characteristics that you have extrapolated from ancient Hebrew mythology. Hardly anything you say has a ring of truth about it to me. What a convincing revelation would be, well I will tell you if it happens. And I going to be tortured by your god for not believing the things you believe?
What do you think would be the characteristics of anyone who fulfilled possibility # 3 - a Creator?
28 May 18
Originally posted by @sonshipYes, and you were talking to me about Mount Everest. And I asked you about it. Do you have analogy about falling off Mount Everest for me, sonship, or is it just a Dasa type of 'debating point'? Tell me about "falling off" Mount EverestDasa ...
Not your Muslim neighbors.
Not Dasa.
You are talking to me. Face it.