When Jesus Became Son of God

Originally posted by JS357
Not a problem.

What I am referring to is How Jesus Became God, a Learning Company production. It is a secular view of the historical record.

Today's installment is about how Jesus's divinity was considered before the NT started getting written, in the ~20 year "pre-literary" tradition. Biblical evidence was presented for an early belief that Jesus was ma ...[text shortened]... n't know that it makes any difference what the early folks believed, but it's interesting to me.

If that is the case this might be of interest to you...
http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/do-you-have-to-believe-in-the-trinity-to-be-saved-2

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby Thread 164808 (Page 2)

[b]What Do You Believe? 3) I believe that God is a Trinity of three Persons: God the Father; God the Son; and God the Holy Spirit who are all co-equal, co-infinite and co-eternal. And that each Person of the Trinity also has precisely the same attributes, perfections, a ...[text shortened]... e love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit,[/i] be with you all.” (2Corinthians 13:14)[/b]

What Do You Believe?
I believe in one God and one Lord, Jesus Christ. I believe another name for God is Holy Spirit. I believe that at the new birth we receive the gift of holy spirit which is God's gift to the believer.
This one gift has nine manifestations, speaking in tongues, interpretation, prophecy, etc.
I do not believe one has to believe in the man made doctrine of a triune God. I also believe that it is not supported in scripture.
I believe Jesus was born of a virgin and 100% man, not God. He was prophesied throughout the Old Testament starting in Genesis 3:15.
He was totally human and sinless. He is the first one to obey and love God perfectly. He is the only man to have fulfilled the requirements of the law and was the perfect sacrifice to redeem mankind, which he did. He died on the cross (FYI God cannot die) and was raised from the dead by his father.(he did not raise himself)
He was fully persuaded that God would raise him after 3 days and 3 nights.
Because of his obedience, God highly exalted him to be Lord over the church, and he is my Lord and my hero.
He is actively working through his church today and he is "the express image" of the living God. He is just like his father, loving, gracious, merciful and kind.
He always did and does, the Father's will. He died and and took all our sins upon himself to save us from the coming wrath of God.
He also took all our sickness and deceases, (by his stripes we were healed) he took our poverty, (he became poor so we might be rich). All this is available to the Christian today and forever. That is why I have confessed him as Lord in my life and that is why I love him.
The following is a link that will explain "Do you have to believe in a Trinity to be saved"
http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/do-you-have-to-believe-in-the-trinity-to-be-saved-2

Originally posted by checkbaiter
[b]What Do You Believe?
I believe in one God and one Lord, Jesus Christ. I believe another name for God is Holy Spirit. I believe that at the new birth we receive the gift of holy spirit which is God's gift to the believer.
This one gift has nine manifestations, speaking in tongues, interpretation, prophecy, etc.
I do not believe one has to believ ...[text shortened]... d"
http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/do-you-have-to-believe-in-the-trinity-to-be-saved-2[/b]

Rather odd that I should find this same post of yours in another thread.

"I believe Jesus was born of a virgin and 100% man, not God."

Total blunder. A grave error. We should really discuss this! Perhaps not publicly. It's up to you.

Originally posted by josephw
Rather odd that I should find this same post of yours in another thread.

[b]"I believe Jesus was born of a virgin and 100% man, not God."

Total blunder. A grave error. We should really discuss this! Perhaps not publicly. It's up to you.[/b]

I was responding to Grampy, but it should have been in his "What do you believe thread."
My bad, I hope no one was offended because it was on here twice.😕

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I was responding to Grampy, but it should have been in his "What do you believe thread."
My bad, I hope no one was offended because it was on here twice.😕

Checkbaiter, I would not want you to think I would be offended. I trust in your integrity.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
What Do You Believe?
I believe in one God and one Lord, Jesus Christ. I believe another name for God is Holy Spirit. I believe that at the new birth we receive the gift of holy spirit which is God's gift to the believer.
This one gift has nine manifestations, speaking in tongues, interpretation, prophecy, etc.
I do not believe one has to believe i ...[text shortened]... saved"
http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/do-you-have-to-believe-in-the-trinity-to-be-saved-2

Here's the original post; please note the italics added to its final sentence. In addition to the "Genesis 3:15" scripture reference, on the basis of what other "authoritative source" do you believe these statements to be true?

In reply to the question: "Do you have to believe in a Trinity to be saved." Of course not. The moment prior to deciding to place your faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ you're still a dichotomous human being [body and soul only] incapable of being taught and/or understanding any absolute truths revealed within the Word of God and limited to human rather than divine viewpoint. At the moment of accepting God's grace gift of salvation and eternal life, the Holy Spirit imputes a human spirit [now a trichotomous human being able to be taught and understand absolute truths revealed within the Word of God]. At salvation none know more than a thimble full of doctrine.

After salvation God's plan for all believers is to grow in grace to maturity in acquiring the mind of Christ by consistent exposure to the accurate teaching of God's Word verse by verse from the original languages in which it was written by their right pastor-teacher. What does "right" mean? The one provided by the Holy Spirit [where positive volition exists] whose function is to study and teach serious students of the Word of God. Unfortunately some believers lose interest due to distractions and negative volition with the consequence that they remain immature believers indistinguishable from unbelievers in many instances their entire lives.

Do they lose their salvation? Hell, no. Spiritual birth is a supernatural event. All they did was to accept a free gift. The Holy Spirit is the Executor of Salvation; His positional imputation of God's righteousness is irreversible. Why? Two of God's divine attributes are His Justice which means He's fair and His Righteousness which together form the basis of His Divine Integrity: God cannot deny Himself. Another attribute is His Immutability; He cannot change His already perfect plan of reconciliation. Adoption into Christ's Royal Family is permanent. Growing in grace enables the maturing believer to glorify God in time and eternity. Thanks for your reply.
___________________________________________

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
What Do You Believe?

The Oxford Dictionaries define the verb form of the English word “believe” as follows: To “Accept the statement of (someone) as true: he didn’t believe her or didn’t want to know.” And the noun form is defined as “An acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.”Reveal Hidden Content

Here are two illustrative examples from Saint Augustine: “Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe.” and “If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself.” (Saint Augustine)Reveal Hidden Content

The English word “forum” is defined by Wikipedia as follows: “In addition to its standard function as a marketplace, a forum was a gathering place of great social significance, and often the scene of diverse activities, including political discussions and debates, rendezvous, meetings, et cetera.”Reveal Hidden Content

The sole purpose of this online spirituality forum thread is to provide “a gathering place” for the civil exchange of diverse beliefs and objective discussion. All of us possess positive and negative volition: we each buy what we choose and leave other items on the shelves; similarly, we each choose what we believe and disbelieve within the secular and spiritual realms (which may change as new credible information is assimilated). Please state your belief with a reference to an authoritative source in which you place your trust. Thanks."

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Here's the original post; please note the italics added to its final sentence. In addition to the "Genesis 3:15" scripture reference, on the basis of what other "authoritative source" do you believe these statements to be true?

In reply to the question: "Do you have to believe in a Trinity to be saved." Of course not. The moment prior to deci ...[text shortened]... r belief with a reference to an authoritative source in which you place your trust. Thanks."[/i]

I agree so far, I was regenerated or born again in the mid 70"s, so I have had plenty of time to grow. I still have a long way to go, since it is a lifelong experience.
Everyday I pray for God to open my understanding, and he has. I stand by what I believe I have been taught through God's spirit and his word.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby Thread 164808 (Page 2)

[b]What Do You Believe? 3) I believe that God is a Trinity of three Persons: God the Father; God the Son; and God the Holy Spirit who are all co-equal, co-infinite and co-eternal. And that each Person of the Trinity also has precisely the same attributes, perfections, a ...[text shortened]... e love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit,[/i] be with you all.” (2Corinthians 13:14)[/b]

One of the upcoming programs in the series I am viewing is about the Trinity. (By the way it is available as CD, not just DVD.) I don't mean to stir anything up, just to get whether any of the program's ideas ring true with believers. For example it was interesting to see if there was belief that Jesus became the Son of God and Lord and Messiah upon and not until resurrection, which is purported in the program to be what was believed just after He died, or were those things eternally so, which seems to be current orthodoxy. Lord help that I have not caused this dust-up about the Trinity.

Originally posted by JS357
One of the upcoming programs in the series I am viewing is about the Trinity. (By the way it is available as CD, not just DVD.) I don't mean to stir anything up, just to get whether any of the program's ideas ring true with believers. For example it was interesting to see if there was belief that Jesus became the Son of God and Lord and Messiah upon and not un ...[text shortened]... seems to be current orthodoxy. Lord help that I have not caused this dust-up about the Trinity.

Originally posted by JS357
"... Lord help that I have not caused this dust-up about the Trinity."

John Locke (I think) observed: "We arrive at the truth through the honest disagreement among friends."
The insight is fine as far as it goes though one conversational component is unfortunately omitted;
each of the "friends" must also be prepared to accept the fact that painful unlearning may be involved.

Originally posted by JS357
I know I'm a godless heathen so with that out of the way, I am also interested in all this.

In How Jesus Became God, Bart Ehrman of UNC* says that the following are clear evidence that God made Jesus the Son of God [and Lord and Messiah] by raising him from the dead:

New International Version
Acts 13:33

"...he has fulfilled for us, their children, by ...[text shortened]... nk about it.

*And no, I'm not trolling. I'm watching the 24 part dvds from The Great Courses.

Jesus is not (the one and only) son of God.

A poor man in Iraq can have 5 sons and 3 daughters.....................but God can only have 1 son.

Its absurd and stupid and false.

Every living entity is the offspring of God..................(the son of God)

Thats you and me .......and Hitler and even Richard Dawkins, and everybody in existence.

Why is this so?

Because our essence is spiritual and an expansion of God.

Just like the sun in the sky: It is throwing off trillions of particles of light each nano second, and each particle is an expansion of the sun but in minute form.

Well....... we are all expansions of God in a tiny form, and that is why we are connected to God for eternity and have the same qualities of God, and that can never change.

But we can be connected to God in ignorance, or if we choose in knowledge and understanding and love..

Therefore................we are all sons of God and it is saddening to once more witness the foolishness of Christianity,s false teachings.

Originally posted by Dasa
Jesus is not (the one and only) son of God.

A poor man in Iraq can have 5 sons and 3 daughters.....................but God can only have 1 son.

Its absurd and stupid and false.

Every living entity is the offspring of God..................(the son of God)

Thats you and me .......and Hitler and even Richard Dawkins, and everybody in existence.

Why ...[text shortened]... God and it is saddening to once more witness the foolishness of Christianity,s false teachings.

Out of curiousity, have you ever had the opportunity to read the Gospel of 'Peter'?

If not, worth a read as probably represents a Christianity more aligned to your thinking. (With us all being the sons of God).

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Out of curiousity, have you ever had the opportunity to read the Gospel of 'Peter'?

If not, worth a read as probably represents a Christianity more aligned to your thinking. (With us all being the sons of God).

I shall..................but could you recommend the particular verse,s for me that your talking about and I shall look them up.

Originally posted by Dasa
Jesus is not (the one and only) son of God.

A poor man in Iraq can have 5 sons and 3 daughters.....................but God can only have 1 son.

Its absurd and stupid and false.

Every living entity is the offspring of God..................(the son of God)

Thats you and me .......and Hitler and even Richard Dawkins, and everybody in existence.

Why ...[text shortened]... God and it is saddening to once more witness the foolishness of Christianity,s false teachings.

The God of the Holy Bible is not limited to one son, in fact the scriptures say God has many sons, but God had only one begotten Son.

It is the god Allah of the Quran of Islam that has no son. 😏

Originally posted by Dasa
I shall..................but could you recommend the particular verse,s for me that your talking about and I shall look them up.

Sorry, my bad. Meant of course the Gospel of Thomas. For example;

3:26-28: "You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus..."

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Sorry, my bad. Meant of course the Gospel of Thomas. For example;

3:26-28: "You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus..."

Sadly again (3:26:-28) is a false statement.

Why?

Because we are all sons of God for eternity and that will never change.

Faith has nothing to do with it.

Once more the Christian doctrine is trying to emotionally extort the innocent people, by saying that they must have faith in Jesus to be a son of God.

This is extortion because we must believe in Jesus or go to the fires of hell.

Can you not see,........ that this is extortion.

When the doctrine of Jesus was fabricated by the secular powers and the church leaders, it was a compromise.

The Church leaders were allowed to live, ......... and in return the secular powers could choose or delete what was written in the new book called the Bible.

And so.......the Bible is a sentimental emotional tale of surrender to your new church&Jesus, or go to the fires of hell for eternity.

The Bible is one falsehood after another, and these falsehoods are fashioned in such a way, as to scare everyone to hand over their assets to the church in their Will,s upon their death beds.

This handing over of all your assets to the church is suppose to put you in good standing with God (so you can go to heaven)

But this is just another falsehood, and their Karma will force them to return to the material world to take birth again for their ignorance and sinful lives.