When Jesus Became Son of God

Originally posted by Suzianne
Alright, but my focus here (and in my previous post) was your "100% man, not God" statement. Then you say that he was born as a result of God "implanting a 'seed' in Mary". Was this 'seed' a part of God, in order for Jesus to be 'the Son of God'? Then was not Jesus at least partially God, being the Son of God, born "of" God?

The rest of your post I ag ...[text shortened]... , but I do not understand this reluctance to state that Jesus was at least partially God.

Originally posted by sonship
[b] Honestly, to me, it is a bit of a stretch. The symbolism may or may not represent the holy spirit but it is not convincing in of itself.
There are so many passages that do not make sense in regard to your doctrine, but do make sense when I understand one God and one Lord.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...[text shortened]... f water of life issuing out of the throne of God and the Lamb is God Himself as the Holy Spirit.[/b]

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Yes, I agree. He is "partially" God just as I am partially my earthly father, if that is what you mean.

If God cannot be tempted by evil, yet Jesus was tempted in every way we are, how can he be God?

James 1:13
For God cannot be tempted by evil.

Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin.

The Bible never says that Jesus’ “human nature” was tempted, it says “Jesus” was tempted. Nowhere does it say that “part” of Jesus was tempted; it was “all” of him. If Jesus is God, this is a clear contradiction. Fortunately, Jesus is the human Son of God, so there is no contradiction.

If Jesus is God, then why does he pray to God and call Him “the only true God” in John 17:3?

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

In this verse, Jesus Christ makes a clear distinction between “the only true God” and himself. Jesus called his Father “the only true God,” and that doesn’t leave any room for Jesus to also be “God.”

If Jesus is God, why did he pray at all?

Luke 6:12
One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God.

He would have been praying to himself, or another “part” of himself. Did he do it for our benefit alone? To be an example for us? If Jesus were praying to himself, or another part of himself, then he was just “acting.” It wasn’t real prayer (the way we know it), because we don’t pray to ourselves, we pray to God.

Was Jesus just “acting” when he was in the Garden of Gethsemane praying to God that there be another way, that “if it is possible, that the cup be taken” from him? He was asking God if there was another way (i.e., another way beside dying a horrible death on a cross). If Jesus is God, then all of his prayers “to God” make him look rather ludicrous.

If Jesus is God, why did he say to his disciples: “Trust in God; trust also in me”?

John 14:1
“Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me.”

Notice that Jesus didn’t say “the Father,” he just said “God.” Jesus once again makes a clear distinction between himself and God.
How can Jesus “be like us in every way” and still be “100% man and 100% God”?

Hebrews 2:17
For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.

If Jesus is God and also “like us in every way,” that means we are all 100% man and 100% God. This makes no sense. Either Jesus is not God and truly like us in all ways (a man), or he is God and so are we.

What makes more sense?

The Devil and demons call Jesus the Son of God.

If Jesus is God and God cannot be tempted, why would the Devil tempt Jesus?

The Bible says that “God cannot be tempted” (James 1:13) and we know that the Devil knows Scripture because he quoted it while trying to tempt Jesus (Matt. 4:6). The Devil is totally evil and persistent, but he is not dumb.

Why did the Devil continue to ask Jesus “if you are the Son of God…” when he was tempting him?

Wouldn’t the Devil (Lucifer) and his demons know if they were speaking with the Almighty Himself?

In fact, he tauntingly said to Jesus:

Matthew 4:3
…“If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

Matthew 4:6
If you are the Son of God, he said, throw yourself down.

The Devil knew that Jesus was a man, the Son of God, and the promised Messiah, and that is why he did his best to try to get him to sin. The Devil knew that if he could get Jesus to sin one time, he could not be the perfect sacrifice that was necessary for the forgiveness of our sins.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
If Jesus is God, why did he pray at all?

Luke 6:12
One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God.

He would have been praying to himself, or another “part” of himself. Did he do it for our benefit alone? To be an example for us? If Jesus were praying to himself, or another part of himself, th ...[text shortened]... h on a cross). If Jesus is God, then all of his prayers “to God” make him look rather ludicrous.

Originally posted by Suzianne
How do you explain John 1:1-5? Was this "Word" Jesus, or at least the being who would become Jesus?

Jesus Christ: The Man



Scripture shows that Jesus Christ is a true human being. It is clear from the verses below that he was indeed a man.

Acts 2:22
“Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.

Acts 2:23
This man was handed over to you by God’s set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.

Acts 17:31
For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead.”

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Romans 5:15
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man (Adam) how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!

The Greek word for “man” in these verses is anthropos.

The Greek word anthropos means “a human being, whether male or female, generically, to include all human individuals, to distinguish man from beings of a different race or order.”

Anthropos is used to describe Adam, the first man. In the same verse (Romans 5:15) it is used to describe Jesus Christ. If words mean anything, one must believe that Jesus Christ was a flesh and blood human being just like Adam.

On the other hand, Scripture says “God is not a man.”

Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man…

Numbers 23:19 (NRSV)
God is not a human being, that he should lie, or a mortal…

Hosea 11:9
For I am God, and not man– the Holy One among you.

Jesus Christ is a man. He is the only man who is our Savior, our Redeemer, our Mediator, our Lord, our constant Companion, our Best Friend, our Big Brother, the Light of our lives, our Peace, our Joy, and our Mentor in the art of faith.

He is the Lover of our souls, and that is why we love him and confess him as Lord (Rom. 10:9).
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/articles/jesus-christ/jesus-christ-the-man

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Here is a thorough answer... You are looking at the "word" "logos" as Jesus but it simply means a thought, a plan in God's mind.
But remember, if this is not true to you, then you have to explain all the reasons he cannot be God, which I just posted.


http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/videos/but-what-about-john-1-1

According to Jesus...

According to Jesus, God is strictly one Person, not three. Christians who value Jesus as the supreme revealer of truth should consider his classic words, uttered in a final prayer. "You, Father, are the only one who is truly God" (John 17:3). He defined salvation as belief in that One and only true God, and in himself as the Messiah (John 17:3).

It is a serious hijacking of the words of Jesus if one adds to Jesus' creed. For Jesus, his Father is "the one who alone is truly God, the only one who is truly God, the one true God" (see also John 5:44 and Mark 12:29).

Those utterances are more than clear. They are without a hint of ambiguity. Yet they have been abandoned by the church bearing the name of Jesus. The church has for centuries, since post-biblical times, defined God as three Persons. Jesus defined God as one Person, the Father. There is a very great difference. That difference calls for extensive rethinking and reform. We cannot risk fragmenting God. Jesus believed and taught strict unitary monotheism. He had never heard of the Trinity - or if he had he rejected it. So should his followers.

Centuries later, after church councils had invented iron-clad creeds and imposed them on the faithful, Augustine came face to face with Jesus' definition of God as the "only one who is truly God." What was he to do? The church by then had lost Jesus' creed. It propagated everywhere belief that God was three Persons. That innocent sentence in John 17:3 stated that God was a single Person, not three Persons. Here is Augustine's "solution." He wrote: "The proper order of the words is 'that they may know You and Jesus Christ, the only true God'" (Homilies on John).

One can have the words of Jesus on this great issue, or the words of the post-biblical creeds. It is hard to see how one can have both at the same time. Following Jesus means believing his teachings. Jesus' teaching about how many Persons are the One God is really not difficult: "You, Father, are the only true God." Jesus is the Lord Messiah (Luke 2:11; Ps. 110:1), the Son of God (Matt. 16:16), but not the One True God. The word "one" should be clear to all.

If anyone has any question about this, let him consult the thousands upon thousands of singular personal pronouns used for God in the Bible. "I," "Me," "Mine," "Myself," "Thee," "Thy," "Thine," "Thyself," "He," "Him," "His," "Himself." All these words, as well as God's proper name Yahweh followed by singular verbs (6700 times), ought to convince the open-minded that God is one Person, not more. And monotheism - belief that God is one - is, according to Jesus, of critical importance (Mark 12:29).

Jesus, the Son of God, is the perfect human reflection of the One God, his Father. But he is not God. He is the sinless second Adam and the "prophet to be raised up from the house of Israel" (Deut. 18:15-18). Created and begotten in the womb of his mother under the power of God's spirit, he is designated "Son of God" (Luke 1:35). The idea that he is "eternally begotten" not only has no recognizable meaning in language, but it is false to Scripture. "Eternal generation" contradicts the important biblical fact that the Son of God was begotten "today," not in eternity (Ps. 2:7; cp. Acts 13:33, referring in the latter text to the birth of Jesus.
http://focusonthekingdom.org/articles/according.htm

Originally posted by Suzianne
[b]http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/videos/but-what-about-john-1-1

Ok, then. Unitarian. Is this how you would categorize yourself? Do you attend a church? Is this church a 'unitarian' church? Sorry for all the personal questions.

I will get back to this. It's 5am here right now, and I have appointments later this morning. I'm not sure if my ...[text shortened]... rship would extend to explaining all these reasons, but I could tackle some. 'Til later.[/b]

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I know that water is symbolic of holy spirit. But I say it is a stretch because it does not stand out in scripture.
If ever there was a topic for the Lord to reveal plainly, it would be this one. Is there a Trinity?
God describes Himself over and over again through out the bible, but I only see one God and one Lord, Jesus. God said He is one God in the ...[text shortened]... salem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.

"One Lord, one faith, one baptism; One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." (Eph. 4:5,6)

"The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ."

"Since you seek a proof of the Christ who is speaking in me, who is not weak unto you but is powerful in you." (2 Cor. 13:3)

"The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever."

Christ - at the right hand of God - "It is Christ Jesus who died and, rather, who was raised, who is also at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us." (Romans 8:34b)

Christ, is IN the believers - " But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the [human] spirit is life because of righteousness." (v.10)