Why has a bee's sting evolved to be barbed?

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
yes, ot and nt are different. if they weren't they would be the same book. what are you trying to communicate?

what is more logical? monkeys having sex and during a long period of time they undergo mutations to look more and more human? or adam and eve living for several hundred years and god personally looking out for all the brothers, sisters and cousi ...[text shortened]... t happens if they disobey god and the people god appointed to lead them: Noah's story.

"do you still not see that the god portrayed in the old testament is a monster? "

No I do not see Him that way, I see a human race sinning and God
showing more restaint than I would.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
"do you still not see that the god portrayed in the old testament is a monster? "

No I do not see Him that way, I see a human race sinning and God
showing more restaint than I would.
Kelly

kill every person in jericho, leave none alive except for the hooker that betrayed her people.

awesome restraint.

Originally posted by KellyJay
"what is more logical? monkeys having sex and during a long period of time they undergo mutations to look more and more human?"

Logical, I don't see any pushing very simple life into much more
complex life forms. If monkeys over time changed into humans where
are all the steps in between that should be with us now? I do not mean
the fossils where anyo ...[text shortened]... a claim, I
mean the living creatures that are not quite monkey and not quite
human?
Kelly

where is the ark? where is the garden of eden, where are the ruins of the tower of babel? why did god create the sun after the plants and how come earth was created before the sun?

you don't understand much about evolution? you do not understand how some species could have gone extinct. perhaps you believe the dinosaurs lived at the same time with humans to. and not anyone can "connect the dots and make a claim". you seem to be under the impression that paleontologists are making guesswork without any regard for logic and science. this comming from a guy that believes in the bible simply because it is the bible and without ANY science backing it up, not even the as you say "flimsy" science that the evolutionists use.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
This is one of the many reasons I cannot worship such a god. At a whim of his mind he can kill people as savagesly as he wants. Cruel...

that is not god. defies all logic to be a christian and to also follow the old testament. it defies all logic to hold a religious book as a scientific encyclopedia. it defies all logic to assume that the historical events presented in the bible are all true entirely when we know all history is written by the conquerors and even when religion isn't involved, it sometimes leaves stuff out or changes events. it defies all logic to be expecting god to break all his laws in the first books of the bible and then adhere to them in the rest. it defies all logic to expect god to create a univers that requires him to constantly tweak it and take care of it, but only in the first thousand or so years, after that it would magically turn into what we see today.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
kill every person in jericho, leave none alive except for the hooker that betrayed her people.

awesome restraint.

Again, since God sets all limits in the universe He can do that. If you
notice all the people that were involved in that story including the
'hooker' all ended up dying too just later in time in different ways.
Kelly

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
where is the ark? where is the garden of eden, where are the ruins of the tower of babel? why did god create the sun after the plants and how come earth was created before the sun?

you don't understand much about evolution? you do not understand how some species could have gone extinct. perhaps you believe the dinosaurs lived at the same time with humans ...[text shortened]... science backing it up, not even the as you say "flimsy" science that the evolutionists use.

Do not know where any of those are or why God created what in what
order. I have walked in Israel, been in Jerusalem and seen quite a
few things that were also in scripture. You know where the matter that
blew up in the "Big Bang" came from, you know where all the
intermediate life forms are for all the variety of life are that should be
here since supposedly evolutionary change happens so slowly?
Kelly

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
that is not god. defies all logic to be a christian and to also follow the old testament. it defies all logic to hold a religious book as a scientific encyclopedia. it defies all logic to assume that the historical events presented in the bible are all true entirely when we know all history is written by the conquerors and even when religion isn't involved, ...[text shortened]... y in the first thousand or so years, after that it would magically turn into what we see today.

Except much of the OT and NT are written not by the conquerors but
by the conquered. God maintains, He does not break His laws, He is
not bound by those things He binds us too.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
He does not break His laws

Actually he does.
Exodus 20:13 says, in the cmmandements, that killing is forbidden, no exceptions. His word, not ours. But he himself kills the whole world (but 8 persons).
So of course he break his own laws.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
that is not god. defies all logic to be a christian and to also follow the old testament. it defies all logic to hold a religious book as a scientific encyclopedia. it defies all logic to assume that the historical events presented in the bible are all true entirely when we know all history is written by the conquerors and even when religion isn't involved, ...[text shortened]... y in the first thousand or so years, after that it would magically turn into what we see today.

Yes I know. The devilish god, desribed in the old testament, worshipped by christian, without any thoughts, when they instead should read the gospels, where love, compassion, and understanding is in focus.

OT is outdated. Let it go.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Except much of the OT and NT are written not by the conquerors but
by the conquered. God maintains, He does not break His laws, He is
not bound by those things He binds us too.
Kelly

conquered? what are you talking about? the whole ot was written by the jews who wanted to justify anything they did through god's will. any genocide or conquest they did, god's will, any war they fought, god was responsible for the outcome. and when they get conquered by a larger power, god is angry with them. do you see now how the old testament is first and foremost a biased history book meant to tell the jewish people they are chosen and god will help them if they behave and obey the laws?

and actually he does break the laws. genetics say that you cannot get 6 billion people out of just 2 because there is simply not enough genetic material to go around. there is a reason we do not marry our sisters. because the offspring have a great chance of being retarded of have some genetic failure. biology says that plants cannot exist without sun so why would god create them before the sun.

noah's flood is one big law(s) breaking party. if you would be so kind as to look at a scientific site you will see just how many impossibilities happen in that flood, from the brick ark that would sink just like a, you guessed it, brick, to again the love exchanged between cousins and brothers to the complete lack of evidence of a cataclysmic world wide flood. and i could go on and on.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Do not know where any of those are or why God created what in what
order. I have walked in Israel, been in Jerusalem and seen quite a
few things that were also in scripture. You know where the matter that
blew up in the "Big Bang" came from, you know where all the
intermediate life forms are for all the variety of life are that should be
here since supposedly evolutionary change happens so slowly?
Kelly

there was no matter before the big bang that is just it. furthermore if one is correct and big bang is the origin of space time you can never find out "where" that matter came from, it would be like trying to film the inside of a black hole. i could ask you where did the matter come from when god said "let there be light"? but you wouldn't be able to answer me except with a "god made it". your problem if that explanation suits you.

i accept that god made the universe but i still want to know how. and i will not accept the fairy tales that the bible tell. those are for children, whether 10 year olds or 50 year olds. big bang, quantum theory , evolution, and other theories may not be the ultimate truths but they are a work in progress. they are improved constantly. new knowledge is discovered. nobody however will update the genesis and those that take it as a science treaty still fail to grasp one thing: that the only thing supporting the genesis is genesis. such circular reasoning is anything but science.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Again, since God sets all limits in the universe He can do that. If you
notice all the people that were involved in that story including the
'hooker' all ended up dying too just later in time in different ways.
Kelly

in other words, god set us forth in this life, but if he feels like it he will from time to time choose a people and send it to kill others. and it will be justifiable. because he is god. and he is very good and warm and fuzzy but he kills people from time to time. which is good because he is allowed.

also, by extension, those that did those genocides are absolved as well. i mean if god chooses to kill people because he is god those that carry out his will not only are not murderers but actually they are very good believers.

i wonder what you think about the crusades. the noah flood wiped all of mankind except some 8 or so people, what do you think about that? in the bible it says that all of mankind was wiked except those 8 so it deserved to die. in contrast with the J man who said all can be forgiven. so was the flood justified? were all the 5 year old children that died in your noah fairy tale wicked? how about the 4 year old children? noah's sons had wives, where did those women come from? were they not from the rest of the wicked humanity? and if so how come they were righteous in a world filled with wicked people?

of course you do not see that the bible is filled with contradictions and fabrications. you believe that if you smile and tell god that something in His book is fabrication you will roast for all eternity in hell. that somehow it cheapens jesus's messages. tell me how relevant is how the earth was made to understand what jesus preached? why is the story of the Jericho genocide relevant when jesus said that all can be saved and forgiven and start a new life?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Yes I know. The devilish god, desribed in the old testament, worshipped by christian, without any thoughts, when they instead should read the gospels, where love, compassion, and understanding is in focus.

OT is outdated. Let it go.

the funny thing is that the old testament is the jewish book. a book that, in the words of the comedian Lewis Black, "wasn't good enough for christians". a book which most jewish don't take seriously when it comes to evolution, creation, noah story etc. i strongly believe that there are much more christians believing in the jewish book of genesis than there are jews believing in the book of genesis.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
You have the right to think that everyone else belives in lies. But then averyone else has the right to think that you believe in lies too. How does that feel?
Christians are always insulted when I tell them that they believe in a fake god and farytales. With some right.
Therefore I don't tell them. But you tell me. What does that make you?

The peo ...[text shortened]... fire if you were to decide.

That's one of many reasons that I cannot join the christians.

It doesn't bother me. I'm unmoved by anything anyone says about God or me.

Just don't step on my blue suede shoes.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
conquered? what are you talking about? the whole ot was written by the jews who wanted to justify anything they did through god's will. any genocide or conquest they did, god's will, any war they fought, god was responsible for the outcome. and when they get conquered by a larger power, god is angry with them. do you see now how the old testament is first a ...[text shortened]... to the complete lack of evidence of a cataclysmic world wide flood. and i could go on and on.

You have not read the OT if you believe that.
Kelly