05 Feb 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterYeah, and I said yes.
I asked you pages and pages ago if you believed in eternal suffering, do you?
But then I just wrote a lot more that qualifies that 'yes.'
And I also emphasized that it is something of a mystery.
But, as Pomazansky states, we have no reason to doubt that some people will suffer eternally, and that is the tradition I prioritize, but I would never, ever presume to know the full of God's judgment. I can only emphasize that I do know.
05 Feb 18
Originally posted by @fmfRight, that's exactly right.
Isn't this like saying, the state of Texas does not execute people for capital crimes; perpetrators of those sorts of crimes execute themselves.
Do you not believe that the supernatural 'facility' commonly called "hell" was created for a specific purpose by your god figure?
The nature of immutable truth & righteousness dictates that this is justice.
It is also said that God created man for Heaven, nor for Hell. But man sends himself to hell based off of his poor actions and behavior, and removes himself from the path that he should walk by choice.
I emphasize again:
I have no idea what the criteria for damnation is, nor do I know what the "bottom cut off" for heaven is. I can only say that I know that faithful life by the Gospels and true repentance and contrition for every shortcoming is what guarantees inherting the Kingdom of God.
05 Feb 18
Originally posted by @jacob-vervilleSo people don't get sent to "Hell" for their lack of belief; they get sent to "Hell" for their "poor actions and behaviour", according to your beliefs, is that right?
It is also said that God created man for Heaven, nor for Hell. But man sends himself to hell based off of his poor actions and behavior, and removes himself from the path that he should walk by choice.
The ideology that many of the most vocal Christians in this community propagate is that the "poor actions and behaviour" of believers [we are talking about their "sins", right?] are forgiven and they are thus spared "Hell".
Meanwhile, non-believers go to "Hell" and their "poor actions and behaviour" are irrelevant [other than that their "sins" are not "forgiven" because of their lack of belief].
Is this not your ideology too?
05 Feb 18
Originally posted by @jacob-vervilleWhat deterrent value do "damnation" and "Hell" have for people who simply do not believe either thing is real?
I have no idea what the criteria for damnation is, nor do I know what the "bottom cut off" for heaven is. I can only say that I know that faithful life by the Gospels and true repentance and contrition for every shortcoming is what guarantees inherting the Kingdom of God.
05 Feb 18
Originally posted by @jacob-vervilleIs this certainty that people will suffer eternally intended to somehow persuade non-believers to become believers and so avoid the fate that Christians claim awaits if they remain non-Christians?
...we have no reason to doubt that some people will suffer eternally....
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05 Feb 18
Originally posted by @fmfI don't think it is quite as simple as 'not believing'. I think unbelief is merely a symptom of a deeper underlying sense of sinful pride and rebellion against God.
What deterrent value do "damnation" and "Hell" have for people who simply do not believe either thing is real?
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05 Feb 18
Originally posted by @fmfChristians will continue to sin even after they are saved (have obtained salvation through faith in Christ.)
Christians get "saved" even if they continue "sinning". True or false?
A "saved" Christian can lose their "saved" status. True or false?
A genuinely saved Christian cannot lose his or her saved status.
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Originally posted by @romans1009I think when someone is saved their sinning will be less and less frequent as God convicts them of their sin and transforms them into the image of Jesus. That is if they truly have a repentant heart. I don't think it is possible to be saved and continue with the exact same sinful lifestyle that you had before. Radical changes have to be made.
Christians will continue to sin even after they are saved (have obtained salvation through faith in Christ.)
A genuinely saved Christian cannot lose his or her saved status.
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Originally posted by @jacob-vervilleI’m not familiar with the writers you mention. What I’m interested in is how you reconcile incoherence of Jesus torturing people in eternal suffering with scriptures such as John 3:16 for example?
Yeah, and I said yes.
But then I just wrote a lot more that qualifies that 'yes.'
And I also emphasized that it is something of a mystery.
But, as Pomazansky states, we have no reason to doubt that some people will suffer eternally, and that is the tradition I prioritize, but I would never, ever presume to know the full of God's judgment. I can only emphasize that I do know.
And these two comments below which I asked you is you had biblical support for:
It would be an injustice to not send some people to hell...
... You can't simply let everyone slip into heaven.
05 Feb 18
Originally posted by @romans1009Are you a "genuinely saved" Christian?
Christians will continue to sin even after they are saved (have obtained salvation through faith in Christ.)
A genuinely saved Christian cannot lose his or her saved status.
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Originally posted by @dj2beckerExactly. Those who have accepted Christ are a new creation. But the struggle against the flesh is still there so Christians will still sin but not as much. If they are still sinning in the same ways and to the same degree, it’s evidence that they have not accepted Christ into their heart.
I think when someone is saved their sinning will be less and less frequent as God convicts them of their sin and transforms them into the image of Jesus. That is if they truly have a repentant heart. I don't think it is possible to be saved and continue with the exact same sinful lifestyle that you had before. Radical changes have to be made.
But where people get hung up, I think, is in thinking they have to change by their own effort and have to curtail how much they sin by their own effort. They don’t! If they are reading the Bible and praying on a daily basis (multiple times a day is better,) they can wholly and completely rely on God’s Holy Spirit to transform them.
Justification (salvation) is immediate, but sanctification, becoming more and more like Christ, is an ongoing process.
05 Feb 18
Originally posted by @dj2beckerWhat about not believing there is any such a thing as "sin" or any "rebellion"? Is that still an issue of "sinful pride"?
I don't think it is quite as simple as 'not believing'. I think unbelief is merely a symptom of a deeper underlying sense of sinful pride and rebellion against God.
Originally posted by @dj2beckerI don't see how it is. I've never asked him that question before. He said "A genuinely saved Christian cannot lose his or her saved status". So I asked him if he is one. How is that question/response a "punchline"?
And there is the punchline we have all been waiting for. 😴
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<What I’m interested in is how you reconcile incoherence of Jesus torturing people in eternal suffering with scriptures such as John 3:16 for example?>
It’s really pretty simple. God doesn’t owe man anything. God doesn’t need man for anything. God is completely holy and despises sin. He does not want *unforgiven sin* in heaven. He has told man through the Holy Bible how to become righteous with Him and be guaranteed a place in heaven. Just as you would not dictate the terms by which you enter your neighbor’s house, so too is it even more brazen and foolish to think you can dictate the terms by which you enter God’s house.