30 Aug 20
@no1marauder saidNo, we're a representative democracy!
It's a democratic republic
These Republic vs. Democracy debates are honestly just pedantic.
30 Aug 20
@no1marauder saidIf you don't have a state it is impossible to have capitalism. Free market would reign.
Including the abolition of the State and of capitalism.
That is not a manipulatable design, it is a "just is".
31 Aug 20
@no1marauder saidCommunism is indeed the negation of liberty. So, why should I or anyone read past that. I didn't . You fellers do not understand liberty, or, you would rather have government control. can't have both. good night.
If you want to talk about a real "communism-socialism schism" here's the words of Mikhail Bakunin from about 150 years ago:
"I hate Communism because it is the negation of liberty and because humanity is for me unthinkable without liberty. I am not a Communist, because Communism concentrates and swallows up in itself for the benefit of the State all the forces of socie ...[text shortened]... by means of any kind of authority whatsoever.[/b]"
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mikhail_Bakunin
31 Aug 20
@earl-of-trumps saidHow do you define "free market"? Most capitalists require there to be a government to protect property in order for there to be a "free market".
If you don't have a state it is impossible to have capitalism. Free market would reign.
That is not a manipulatable design, it is a "just is".
31 Aug 20
@athousandyoung saidFree market gets no financial help from government, nor suffers unduly regulations
How do you define "free market"? Most capitalists require there to be a government to protect property in order for there to be a "free market".
31 Aug 20
1 edit
@earl-of-trumps saidThat's not true.
Free market gets no financial help from government, nor suffers unduly regulations
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp
No modern country operates with completely uninhibited free markets. That said, the most free markets tend to coincide with countries that value private property
"Value private property" is just another way of saying the police protect rich peoples' property.
https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/economics/free-market/
A free market economy is characterized by the following:
1. Private ownership of resources
See above.
31 Aug 20
Bertrand Badie; Dirk Berg-Schlosser; Leonardo Morlino (2011). International Encyclopedia of Political Science. SAGE Publications, Inc. p. 2132. ISBN 978-1412959636
Private property cannot exist without a political system that defines its existence, its use, and the conditions of its exchange. That is, private property is defined and exists only because of politics.
31 Aug 20
1 edit
@athousandyoung saidTo say 'police protect rich people's property' implies that they do not protect property which is owned by someone who is not rich. Good stuff, Thousand. Keep it coming !!! Or, did you forget, as liberals often do, to then say.."Police also protect property owned by people who are not rich." That, of course, would make your argument just fluff. You should 'close' your arguments . Just a helpful hint. Help me Rhonda
That's not true.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp
No modern country operates with completely uninhibited free markets. That said, the most free markets tend to coincide with countries that value private property
"Value private property" is just another way of saying the police protect rich peoples' property.
https:// ...[text shortened]... conomy is characterized by the following:
1. Private ownership of resources
See above.
31 Aug 20
@averagejoe1 saidHomeowners protect their own property. That's why we have guns.
To say 'police protect rich people's property' implies that they do not protect property which is owned by someone who is not rich. Good stuff, Thousand. Keep it coming !!! Or, did you forget, as liberals often do, to then say.."Police also protect property owned by people who are not rich." That, of course, would make your argument just fluff. You should 'close' your arguments . Just a helpful hint. Help me Rhonda
31 Aug 20
@AThousandYoung
All of that applies to societies that have States. That was not the situation as
No1Marauder and I talked it up.
But this CRAP that the state only protects rich people's property is the exact
type of crap you read in Pravda. Please dispense with the propaganda
@earl-of-trumps saidThere is a strand of socialist thought (first popularized in the 1800s by Pierre-Joseph Proudhon) that argues that true free markets (what they would call "freed markets" ) are impossible under capitalism and could only exist under a radically decentralized socialism (generally these ideas are part of anarchist thinking). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_socialism
@AThousandYoung
All of that applies to societies that have States. That was not the situation as
No1Marauder and I talked it up.
But this CRAP that the state only protects rich people's property is the exact
type of crap you read in Pravda. Please dispense with the propaganda
Of course, one has to realize what "socialism" actually means (which most right wingers don't). The simplest definition is:
SOCIALISM: a social system in which the producers possess both political power and the means of producing and distributing goods.
http://www.spunk.org/library/intro/faq/sp001547/secA1.html#seca14
Anarchist market socialists would deny that the type of "State socialism" implemented in Communist countries is "socialism" at all:
"Anarchism developed in constant opposition to the ideas of Marxism, social democracy and Leninism. Long before Lenin rose to power, Mikhail Bakunin warned the followers of Marx against the "Red bureaucracy" that would institute "the worst of all despotic governments" if Marx's state-socialist ideas were ever implemented. Indeed, the works of Stirner, Proudhon and especially Bakunin all predict the horror of state Socialism with great accuracy. In addition, the anarchists were among the first and most vocal critics and opposition to the Bolshevik regime in Russia."
Ibid.
31 Aug 20
@athousandyoung saidWeren't you fellers saying the couple with the guns, on their own front steps, were wrong to protect their property? So, now you are saying that they can protect their own property with guns? And we conservatives are charged with having to thresh all that out? Gibberish, hypocrisy, the works. Gives us a headache.
Homeowners protect their own property. That's why we have guns.
As to who wins, per this thread, The Dem platform is petty much that 8 african americans were shot by police, and that Dems, against all evidence, would have done something better with the Covid pandemic. That is about it. That is your platform. Seems you could at least say that you will cut taxes so we will have more take-home pay. Unbelievable.
@averagejoe1 saidNo one was on "their property"; they were brandishing guns (in violation of the law) at people "in the street". None of their neighbors saw fit to do the same to "protect their property" (which was not endangered in the least).
Weren't you fellers saying the couple with the guns, on their own front steps, were wrong to protect their property? So, now you are saying that they can protect their own property with guns? And we conservatives are charged with having to thresh all that out? Gibberish, hypocrisy, the works. Gives us a headache.
As to who wins, per this thread, The Dem platform is p ...[text shortened]... you could at least say that you will cut taxes so we will have more take-home pay. Unbelievable.
How much of the Democratic Platform have you read? I bet none. Do I win?
EDIT: Here it is: https://www.demconvention.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/2020-07-31-Democratic-Party-Platform-For-Distribution.pdf
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31 Aug 20
@no1marauder....Gotta' be BIDEN
I can't be;ieve that AMERICANS can be that stupid twice in a row.
31 Aug 20
On taxes, the "stick":
"Democrats will take action to reverse the Trump Administration’s tax cuts benefiting the wealthiest Americans and rewarding corporations for shipping American jobs overseas. We will crack down on overseas tax havens and close loopholes that are exploited by the wealthiest Americans and biggest corporations. We will make sure the wealthy pay their fair share in taxes. We will make sure investors pay the same tax rates as workers and bring an end to expensive and
unproductive tax loopholes, including the carried interest loophole. Corporate tax rates, which were cut sharply by the 2017 Republican tax cut, must be raised, and “trickle-down” tax cuts must be rejected. Estate taxes should also be raised back to the historical norm."
Then, the "carrot":
"Democrats will reform the tax code to be more progressive and equitable, and reduce barriers for working families to benefit from targeted tax breaks, including the Earned Income Tax Credit
and the Child Tax Credit. Our program of reform will provide immediate, marked relief for working families, including more generous, refundable tax credits to benefit low- and
middle-income families, and easier and more equitable access to tax provisions that help working families build wealth, including by equalizing tax benefits for retirement contributions and
providing more accessible tax breaks for homeownership."
pp. 22-23.