Originally posted by Sam The ShamShift the goalposts if you like - you clearly can't back up your original statement.
Oh hell have it your way, everything's great in Cuba, that's why so many people have died trying to escape from there. It's a workers paradise. That's why communist regimes treat their citizens like prisoners and don't allow them to leave. How many people try to escape from America to join them? For that matter why don't you go there if it's so damn great?
I didn't claim everything was great in Cuba.
Originally posted by RedmikeYou're right... to an extent. You see, Castro's arse-kicking isn't just a failure of Castro himself, but, rather, his entire way of running the country.
Nobody kicked anything.
Castro is standing down when he chooses to, not because of anything the US has done (despite their best efforts to invade or assasinate).
You can celebrate that the US survives longer than an individual if that makes you feel better.
Meanwhile, the ideas of the Cuban Revolution will long outlive the US.
When an American president gets old, we have the electoral process -- a free market of governance, if you will -- that allows us to freely select a new president. But under Socialism (especially Castro's Socialism. I know, I know, that there's other kinds.) when Castro gets old he simply can't be in charge anymore. Therefore, the US "kicked Castro's arse" (perhaps only metaphorically) because it has the free democratic system.
Originally posted by bjohnson407That makes no sense at all.
You're right... to an extent. You see, Castro's arse-kicking isn't just a failure of Castro himself, but, rather, his entire way of running the country.
When an American president gets old, we have the electoral process -- a free market of governance, if you will -- that allows us to freely select a new president. But under Socialism (especially Cast ...[text shortened]... astro's arse" (perhaps only metaphorically) because it has the free democratic system.
If a US President considerer themselves too old (or too ill), they'd simply stand down too.
Castro standing down is nothing to do with the US.
Originally posted by RedmikeGood thing he executed them. If he had waterboared them he would have been in deep Shyt. He should consider himself lucky. He did the right thing.
No, the way a debate works is that you make the claim, so you have to substantiate it.
People were executed as part of a civil war after Castro came to power, but that's not what you're claiming.
Your time article proves nothing, other than that people get killed in war.
F. GRANNY
Originally posted by SeitseYeah, don't we have to thank him for that meningitis b vaccine... which the US later used to stem an outbreak there?
I won't step into this shaky "debate".
However, whether I sympathize or not with the Castro regime, this
bit of info is the most ignorant statement I've ever read, specially
being worldwide known the literacy rate of Cubans and their amazing
scientifical achievements.
No Latin American country (and even many 2nd and 1st world countries)
has the education level of Castro's Cuba.
Google it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba#Medical_research_in_Cuba
Originally posted by agrysonDid you read the criticism part of that wiki article? Don't bother, it was written by the US State Dept and we all know what lying bastards they are. Sure thought the French made that vaccine. I wonder why not.
Yeah, don't we have to thank him for that meningitis b vaccine... which the US later used to stem an outbreak there?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba#Medical_research_in_Cuba
Carry on.
F. GRANNY.
Fidel was perhaps the most remarkable man of the 20th Century. Starting with 7 men on the run in the mountains, he wound up overturning a brutal dictatorship and restoring independence to a nation that had been sold out to foreign corporate interests and organized crime. Then he held out for 50 years against constant pressure from a superpower located only 90 miles away.
Fidel left a lot to be desired on the human rights side, but the gross exaggerations spewed out by right wingers are nonsense. Fidel even released the Bay of Pigs invaders; I wonder how the US government would treat its citizens who landed on US soil backed by a foreign government with the express purpose of overthrowing the government by military force?
Although Castro wasn't the best person in the world by a long stretch and certainly living in cuba wouldn't have been entirely pleasant. Saying he shot anyone educated is ridiculous.
Didn't he send thousands of doctors trained in cuba to the poorest areas in latin America to help stem the flow of disease? And pakistan, india, africa..... etc etc?
Also didn't he train thousands of foreign medical personnel for free?
Didn't he send several thousand troops to Africa to help the peasants fighting for independence from warlords, democracy and the end of apartheid?
Didn't he truly believe that Marxism was a good Idea, to the point that the first land he seized was his own family's, unlike most other communist regimes who simply wanted control of a submissive populace.
As Americans you many not have liked him and he may have been something of a thorn in you paw as it were, but he wasn't an evil man, he just was diametrically opposed to everything America stands for.... In the same way right wing Americans are opposed to everything Marxism stands for....
Also I love the way many people view castro as evil yet think Che Guevara was an Iconic revolutionary hero.....
Originally posted by no1marauderWell said...... didn't he survive something ridiculous like 650 assassination attempts? And wasn't that brutal dictatorship backed by the US?
Fidel was perhaps the most remarkable man of the 20th Century. Starting with 7 men on the run in the mountains, he wound up overturning a brutal dictatorship and restoring independence to a nation that had been sold out to foreign corporate interests and organized crime. Then he held out for 50 years against constant pressure from a superpower located on ...[text shortened]... a foreign government with the express purpose of overthrowing the government by military force?
Originally posted by no1marauderThey would send them home to bask in the shores of sunny Guantanamo Bay!
I wonder how the US government would treat its citizens who landed on US soil backed by a foreign government with the express purpose of overthrowing the government by military force?
Originally posted by MexicoAnd not to mention his contribution to the Olympic Games with Cuba's track and field, boxing, and base a ball. God, i love that man, and i shall miss him greatly. Probably the greatest person in the history of mankind.
Well said...... didn't he survive something ridiculous like 650 assassination attempts? And wasn't that brutal dictatorship backed by the US?
F. GRANNY.
Originally posted by smw6869Lets not get carried away here.... His human rights record wasn't exactly pristine.... although he never tried to hide it.... Unlike many, many others...
And not to mention his contribution to the Olympic Games with Cuba's track and field, boxing, and base a ball. God, i love that man, and i shall miss him greatly. Probably the greatest person in the history of mankind.
F. GRANNY.
I would tend to agree that he was an impressive human who truly believed in his cause.....
But greatest person in the history of mankind? Surely there are better candidates.....
Originally posted by no1marauderYou forgot the small bit about him allowing the USSR to park nuclear warheads on Cuban soil that nearly sent the world into a nuclear nightmare from which we probably would all be dead. Other than that he was a fine chap and will be missed. :'(
Fidel was perhaps the most remarkable man of the 20th Century. Starting with 7 men on the run in the mountains, he wound up overturning a brutal dictatorship and restoring independence to a nation that had been sold out to foreign corporate interests and organized crime. Then he held out for 50 years against constant pressure from a superpower located on ...[text shortened]... a foreign government with the express purpose of overthrowing the government by military force?
Originally posted by smw6869I think he did alot of excellent things to promote guys having beards..... and if anyone ever escaped from Club Gitmo, I'm sure Fidel would have had them returned... in the name of diplomacy and good will between the US and Cuba
And not to mention his contribution to the Olympic Games with Cuba's track and field, boxing, and base a ball. God, i love that man, and i shall miss him greatly. Probably the greatest person in the history of mankind.
F. GRANNY.
He may have actually tortured them first though