24 Feb 08
Originally posted by Rajk999Remarkable doesn't necessarily imply good, or just, simply remarkable... Or worthy or remark...
I agree with most of what you said but consider this ...
Would a 'remarkable' person with moral values
- remove the right of a country to vote
- supress freedom of speech and of the press
- oppress those with religious beliefs.
I live in a smaller Caribbean island and Cuba's education system is no better than ours. I have spoken to many Cubans and m ...[text shortened]... like Castro and wish they can get out of Cuba. I think they are better judges than any of us.
And granted he definitely doesn't hold the same moral values as most of the world however he did/does have values, certainly he loves his country, and his people... And thought he was doing whats right for them... Even if they don't like it. It doesn't make him right, but he did believe in communism and think it was what was best...
Any by comparison to most other enforced communist state cubas literacy is definitely remarkable...
And yes the Cubans definitely have a better Idea than us and to be honest they have my sympathies...
But when people start jumping up and down saying he was evil and so on and so forth I simply want to ensure that they have backing behind their statements and know what they're talking about..... Most don't....
24 Feb 08
Originally posted by MexicoLiteracy and education in Cuba was always among the best in Latin America, way before Castro's revolution. He simply took credit for what Cuba already had and exaggerated the figures later to make it look like he'd done a miracle. Look it up.
[b]My point was that Castro want simply a people killing evil communist with no morals, as a lot of people here seem to think, he actually did do quite a bit of good in the world. (literacy & education in cuba, troops fighting apartheid in Africa etc etc.) and was quite a remarkable person.
I
24 Feb 08
Originally posted by Sam The ShamHealth care in Cuba is a modern marvel too, according to Mike Moore, etc. Here's a cuban hospital they didn't show, the type regular citizens have to go to:
Literacy and education in Cuba was always among the best in Latin America, way before Castro's revolution. He simply took credit for what Cuba already had and exaggerated the figures later to make it look like he'd done a miracle. Look it up.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=N6Ve9wA1cpc
Bet Castro goes to a much nicer one, eh? I am sick and tired of people clammoring about the good he did, he did squat.
24 Feb 08
Originally posted by Sam The ShamI thought you weren't talking to me anymore?
Health care in Cuba is a modern marvel too, according to Mike Moore, etc. Here's a cuban hospital they didn't show, the type regular citizens have to go to:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=N6Ve9wA1cpc
Bet Castro goes to a much nicer one, eh? I am sick and tired of people clammoring about the good he did, he did squat.
And for the record Micheal Moore is an Idiot......
As to everything else, I'm not saying Cuba is a communist heaven that I want to live in. I was simply defending Castro the perspective that he wasn't necessarily an evil man, he is simply Ideologically different from the majority form the majority of people who post here... And for the sake of arguement....
24 Feb 08
Originally posted by Sam The ShamI wont say he did squat. He turned the most prosperous Caribbean country into the poorest. Now thats remarkable !
Health care in Cuba is a modern marvel too, according to Mike Moore, etc. Here's a cuban hospital they didn't show, the type regular citizens have to go to:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=N6Ve9wA1cpc
Bet Castro goes to a much nicer one, eh? I am sick and tired of people clammoring about the good he did, he did squat.
24 Feb 08
Originally posted by MexicoSo how should we define the word 'evil' that you keep saying he is not. Is your only criteria for being evil is the killing of people ?
I thought you weren't talking to me anymore?
And for the record Micheal Moore is an Idiot......
As to everything else, I'm not saying Cuba is a communist heaven that I want to live in. I was simply defending Castro the perspective that he wasn't necessarily an evil man, he is simply Ideologically different from the majority form the majority of people who post here... And for the sake of arguement....
24 Feb 08
Originally posted by Sam The ShamThe fancy medical facilities are for the rich foreigners ..... remarkable ... the man is a genius.
Health care in Cuba is a modern marvel too, according to Mike Moore, etc. Here's a cuban hospital they didn't show, the type regular citizens have to go to:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=N6Ve9wA1cpc
Bet Castro goes to a much nicer one, eh? I am sick and tired of people clammoring about the good he did, he did squat.
24 Feb 08
Originally posted by Rajk999Evil to me is someone who willingly and intentionally does something that they know themselves to be fundamentally wrong. He may have messed it up rather severely but I am of the opinion he felt he was doing the right thing for his people..... The same cannot be said for most of the other communist revolutionaries.......
So how should we define the word 'evil' that you keep saying he is not. Is your only criteria for being evil is the killing of people ?
24 Feb 08
Originally posted by MexicoAfter Castro took over in the 60s he ruthlessly oppressed the churches. All the Catholic churches in Cuba now stand empty. It was only in the last 20 years or so that people were allowed some kind of religious freedom. On that issue alone I would call him an evil man.
Evil to me is someone who willingly and intentionally does something that they know themselves to be fundamentally wrong. He may have messed it up rather severely but I am of the opinion he felt he was doing the right thing for his people..... The same cannot be said for most of the other communist revolutionaries.......
24 Feb 08
Originally posted by Rajk999That depends on how you feel about religion I suppose..... Communist Ideology is diametrically opposed to the very idea of religion.... It cannot exist in a communist society....... Again he's only evil by your moral standards, which are a function of how and where you we're raised...
After Castro took over in the 60s he ruthlessly oppressed the churches. All the Catholic churches in Cuba now stand empty. It was only in the last 20 years or so that people were allowed some kind of religious freedom. On that issue alone I would call him an evil man.
24 Feb 08
Originally posted by MexicoWhy do you continue defending a person who took Cuba and turned it into a squalid mess of a country with an abysmal record of human rights? You keep talking about all the "good" Castro has done, and when it's pointed out that he hasn't done anything good you turn around and find something else Castro has propagandized to brag up, only to discover that you were wrong there too. What did Castro ever do for you to make you so Castro-happy? Castro didn't make everyone literate, they were literate before he came along. Castro didn't give Cuba advanced socialized medicine and facilities, they are crap-holes people go to die in. Castro took a thriving economy and turned it into one of the poorest, and THAT was with enormous soviet aid, in fact the Russians finally got sick of keeping Cuba afloat and gave up. Castro didn't do one damned thing that was good for Cuba.
That depends on how you feel about religion I suppose..... Communist Ideology is diametrically opposed to the very idea of religion.... It cannot exist in a communist society....... Again he's only evil by your moral standards, which are a function of how and where you we're raised...
24 Feb 08
Originally posted by Sam The ShamWhy are you taking it so personally? Neither my nor anyone else's opinion on the matter affects your continued existence.....
Why do you continue defending a person who took Cuba and turned it into a squalid mess of a country with an abysmal record of human rights? You keep talking about all the "good" Castro has done, and when it's pointed out that he hasn't done anything good you turn around and find something else Castro has propagandized to brag up, only to discover that ...[text shortened]... eeping Cuba afloat and gave up. Castro didn't do one damned thing that was good for Cuba.
If you must know, more than anything i'm generating discussion here nothing more, mainly because I'm procrastinating and avoiding work.... Call it playing devils advocate if you want, I'm just trying to get a rise out of people, sucessfully I might add.
Although he actually did do some good, particularly when you compare it to how other communist governments behaved. I by no means condone his behavior.
Also I wanted to see if there was anyone here who actually knew anything about the subject, most people posting we're simply talking about a subject that they actually knew F### all about.....