@eintaluj saidThe vaccinated are allowed in public gatherings because they won't end up in hospital.
I also think that the vaccinated should not receive the advantage of visiting public gatherings without testing and, as it sometimes happens, even without masks. Now, it is already pretty well known that the vaccine does not 100% secure against being infected; vaccinated people are often carrying the virus. Even worse: the vaccine helps to not to fall seriously ill from the ...[text shortened]... cy seems to be designed to help selling the vaccines but not defending the people against the virus.
The unvaccinated aren't allowed because the authorities are trying to protect them from themselves.
@mghrn55 saidWait for a minute, do you want to say that if I am NOT ending up in a hospital in a serious condition, then I may freely spread the virus and that THIS is the rationale behind the governmental policies?
The vaccinated are allowed in public gatherings because they won't end up in hospital.
The unvaccinated aren't allowed because the authorities are trying to protect them from themselves.
@mghrn55 saidI have natural immunity.
The vaccinated are allowed in public gatherings because they won't end up in hospital.
The unvaccinated aren't allowed because the authorities are trying to protect them from themselves.
You are not protecting me from myself.
You are being a gene vaccine Nazi.
What about those that cannot take the vaccine? I thought we were supposed to be protecting them. If that is the case people with natural immunity should be the only people allowed to socially gather and work since the vaccinated do not have immunity from the virus.
@eintaluj saidCorrect.
Wait for a minute, do you want to say that if I am NOT ending up in a hospital in a serious condition, then I may freely spread the virus and that THIS is the rationale behind the governmental policies?
If the premise is that COVID can spread as easily amongst vaccinated as unvaccinated, then the goal is to reduce hospitalizations and deaths.
That being said, there is considerable evidence that vaccinated people are less likely to become inflected and therefore pass it on.
But the primary function of the vaccine is to fight the infection. And prevent serious illness and death.
@metal-brain saidOh. Shut up and get a life !!
I have natural immunity.
You are not protecting me from myself.
You are being a gene vaccine Nazi.
What about those that cannot take the vaccine? I thought we were supposed to be protecting them. If that is the case people with natural immunity should be the only people allowed to socially gather and work since the vaccinated do not have immunity from the virus.
This is my one time I am not ignoring you.
@metal-brain saidAbsolutely right or partially right. It is common fact now that vaccinated people still get the infection. It is also a fact, despite many are denying this, that vaccination and the corresponding mistaken propaganda have given them a false sense of immunity.
That is impossible unless the CDC is wrong.
The CDC says the vaccinated can get the virus and spread it to others. Add to that their false sense of security (because they don't all realize they can spread it to others) they are not socially distancing and washing their hands as much.
That makes the vaccinated the super spreaders. They went back to their old social ...[text shortened]... ed.
The vaccinated have no right to kill people by spreading Covid. Regular testing or no travel.
@ponderable saidThere is an obvious mistake here:
Yes but how many become sick after being vaccinated and how many become sick unvaccinated? Just for the sake of the arghumnet go for a very high number and say about 20% of vaccinated people would develop COVID (it is less in reality) and about 80% of unvaccinated people develop Covid. Evn if the vaccinated who do develop Covid are far less people absolute than the unvacci ...[text shortened]... ny dead?
(And no the unvaccinated are not the more careful group which will go to a quarantine)
"So the unvaccinted still pose the higher danger."
How dangerous some group of people is, depends not only on the rate of infection in that group but also on their behaviour and the restrictions put on or removed from that group. The initial post was talking exactly about that.
@Metal-Brain
What a joke. You think you are superman and IMMUNE?
The main thing going on here is you lucked out SO FAR.
Just because you ASSUME you are safe can be a huge mistake.
That still means you could be asymptomatic and spread covid anyway
so what you are saying is you done care if you infect anyone or not because you are SUPERMAN.
@Eladar
I HATE tobacco myself and NEVER smoke the killer weed. That said, you are just pulling yet another Whatabouthimism having exactly NOTHING to do with the PRESENT covid crisis.
If you really want to follow THAT path, what about all those apparent IDIOTS who didn't know fleas in rats caused the plague that took out a third of the population of Europe.
@mghrn55 saidI still think that the initial post is largely correct. The question was not about whether the vaccine is useful. The question was about the policy of vaccine passports. As we know now that the vaccinated people can get a virus and spread it, and that vaccinated people have behaved too bravely, I do not see anything wrong in the suggestion that also the vaccinated people should be tested and also they should follow other cautionary measures.
Correct.
If the premise is that COVID can spread as easily amongst vaccinated as unvaccinated, then the goal is to reduce hospitalizations and deaths.
That being said, there is considerable evidence that vaccinated people are less likely to become inflected and therefore pass it on.
But the primary function of the vaccine is to fight the infection. And prevent serious illness and death.
I am not saying that current policies of vaccination passports and restrictions cannot be justified. Unfortunately, I have not seen such a justification. Instead, I have seen a lot of logically and mathematically mistaken propagandistic arguments, often published in the newspapers by some scientists from some universities.
Now, after reading all the comments in the present thread, I have to state that I did not see convincing arguments here either. Rather, the participants even did not try to justify current policies.
The initial question posed in the initial post is absolutely sound. Why the vaccination gives freedom to ignore other cautionary measures if it is well known that the vaccine does not give 100% immunity and that many vaccinated people are spreading the virus?
@EintaluJ
But you don't seem to care that the overall effect of vaxing is it stops the major loss of life, like a few months ago we in the US were losing 4000 people a DAY. Even now we still lose a thousand a day and will no doubt get worse since the most useless people are republicans and therefore drank the Trump coolaid and believe every word of that former POTUS who they THINK somehow won the battle against Covid and when Trump said It will be all over by Memorial day, and OF COURSE his STUPID base totally believed him and refused to ANY obvious guidelines like, oh,m WEAR A FLIPPING MASK at least but they can't be bothered with that because they have FREEDOM. WHOPPY DO. Yep Freedom. It really is a real life IQ test and the South is failing miserably.
@sonhouse saidThe initial post and also my comments above were about the policies of vaccine passports and Covid restrictions and other precaution measures like wearing the masks. The usefulness of the vaccines is disputed neither in the original post nor in my comments. It seems that you have addressed your comment to the wrong thread.
@EintaluJ
But you don't seem to care that the overall effect of vaxing is it stops the major loss of life, like a few months ago we in the US were losing 4000 people a DAY. Even now we still lose a thousand a day and will no doubt get worse since the most useless people are republicans and therefore drank the Trump coolaid and believe every word of that former POTUS who the ...[text shortened]... REEDOM. WHOPPY DO. Yep Freedom. It really is a real life IQ test and the South is failing miserably.
@eintaluj saidI am travelling and I am being tested.
I still think that the initial post is largely correct. The question was not about whether the vaccine is useful. The question was about the policy of vaccine passports. As we know now that the vaccinated people can get a virus and spread it, and that vaccinated people have behaved too bravely, I do not see anything wrong in the suggestion that also the vaccinated people should be tested and also they should follow other cautionary measures.
And I am fully vaccinated (double).
Because there is the risk that I could put an unvaccinated person in the hospital or worse.
That is why unvaccinated people are being limited in public places.
Yes, there is a loss of freedom. But freedom is not absolute.
People still remove their shoes at airports in the US.