09 Jun 06
1 edit
This was indeed a fun exercize. Thank you FabianFnas for starting this thread, and thank you to everyone who participated and made it what it was, particularly Mephisto and Red Night for your contributions. I think I speak for everyone when I say that having your insight in this game was most illuminating and appreciated.
Brian
09 Jun 06
Originally posted by bosintangHere is the information about the game:
Fabian: Whats the info on this game (players, date. etc.)?
It was a game from IV Baltic Sea Tournament, a correspondence Chess tournament in 1981 by Leif Svensson vs Jørgen A Nielsen. I found the game in a small magazine under the "Miniatures". They present a position and ask 'what would you do?'. Tha game itself together with the solution is presented elsewhere.
The reason I picked this game up was the suprising secret move, the fact that it was a miniature (only 18 moves so everyon does not get tired after months and months), and that it was not a famous game already in the mega-maxi-super-duper databases. It has it flaws, but also its merits.
Now I would like to ask - which moves was good moves, which was bad moves. Is there any move that won the game by itself, is ther any fabulous blunders in the game?
Would you rather have a longer game?, a better game or with better players?, does blunders make tha game more interesting or not? Does my secrecy make this "A move a day" be more or less interesting. I ask you for feed-back.
Well, anyway, thank you everyone to make this thread so interesting, I just presented the game, you all made it worth doing!
09 Jun 06
Originally posted by FabianFnasComments on moves I did/didn't like: the unusual opening moves are explainable by the fact that it was a correspondence game (i.e. homework) between strong (but not top) players. And that probably includes the strange 5.Qb3 (I would rate that ?!), the introduction to the heart of the game.
Here is the information about the game:
It was a game from IV Baltic Sea Tournament, a correspondence Chess tournament in 1981 by Leif Svensson vs Jørgen A Nielsen. I found the game in a small magazine under the "Miniatures". They present a position and ask 'what would you do?'. Tha game itself together with the solution is presented elsewhere.
The re ...[text shortened]... o make this thread so interesting, I just presented the game, you all made it worth doing!
7. ... Qe7+ looked good at first sight, but perhaps white had looked deeper into it, and 7. ... Be6 may have been the better choice. And knowing the outcome, black could have played for draw with 7. ... Na5.
I still like 10. ... Kd8 better than the played Kd6. And even more so 11.Ne7 instead of Be7. From then on, white was better.
14.Qc3 was not the choice of most commentors. Qb4 and Qg3 seemed more logical at that time.
14. ... Qf6? is probably the move that cost black the game. 14. ... c5 was required.
15. Rxe7+ is the move that black probably overlooked. White 'forces' a tactical continuation that favours him.
17. ... Bg4+? not a good move, in probably an already lost position.
On the concept, I think this was a very instructive exercise. The pace (1 move a day) is good. And not knowing the players, or even their strength, makes the exercise even more interesting. Also, it may be difficult to find games between top players that cannot be found in any database.
Good work!
09 Jun 06
Originally posted by FabianFnasFabian: Thanks that was fun.
Here is the information about the game:
It was a game from IV Baltic Sea Tournament, a correspondence Chess tournament in 1981 by Leif Svensson vs Jørgen A Nielsen. I found the game in a small magazine under the "Miniatures". They present a position and ask 'what would you do?'. Tha game itself together with the solution is presented elsewhere.
The re ...[text shortened]... o make this thread so interesting, I just presented the game, you all made it worth doing!
Regarding the game 7...Qe7+ instead of Na5 and ...Qf6 rather than ...c5 seem like the major blunders by Black.
Rxe7 won the game, but Re4 may have been even stronger.
I still disagree with Mephisto and continue to like Qc3 and hate Qg3.
10 Jun 06
Originally posted by bosintangNe2+ and white plays Bxe2. The Black Queen is attacked by the Bishop on c3.
I still don't know why Ne2+ doesn't win an at least equal position for black here...what am I missing?
Mephisto2/Red Night & a few others: Thanks for your insightful comments.
It was entertaining and educational to follow them.
This position might be more interesting if Black could play Re8 and attack the white queen, but he can't because of BxQf6+. This was why I saw the placing of the King on d8 as problematic.
However, Mephisto may have been right that d8 was better than d7. Thematically, having played Kd8, black was forced to play c5 instead of Qf6. With the King of d7, Nf5 was an option.
Either way, Black was probably lost.
I'm glad that you enjoyed the commentary by Mephisto and myself.
10 Jun 06
Originally posted by LanndonKaneYou mean - like this?
Would someone mind posting the entire game, so i can save to my database?
1. c4 e6 2. e4 d5 3. exd5 exd5 4. Nf3 Nf6 5. Qb3 Nc6
6. cxd5 Nxd5 7. Bc4 Qe7+ 8. Kd1 Nf4 9. Re1 Ne6 10. d4 Qd6
11. d5 Be7 12. Bd2 Scd4 13. Nxd4 Nxd4 14. Qc3 Qf6 15. Rxe7 Kxe7
16. Qe3+ Kd8 17. Bc3 Bg4+ 18. Kc1 Resigned 1-0
10 Jun 06
3 edits
Originally posted by FabianFnasThis is what i mean. thank you
You mean - like this?
1. c4 e6 2. e4 d5 3. exd5 exd5 4. Nf3 Nf6 5. Qb3 Nc6
6. cxd5 Nxd5 7. Bc4 Qe7+ 8. Kd1 Nf4 9. Re1 Ne6 10. d4 Qd6
11. d5 Be7 12. Bd2 Scd4 13. Nxd4 Nxd4 14. Qc3 Qf6 15. Rxe7 Kxe7
16. Qe3+ Kd8 17. Bc3 Bg4+ 18. Kc1 Resigned 1-0
Edit: my bad, i just saw the complete game has been posted on the previous page😀
13 Jun 06
I'd be interested in seeing some computer analysis of this game. The only analysis program I have (Chess Dragon with Crafty) had black up more than a pawn from the rook sacrifice until 16...Kd8, and said that black would have retained this advantage had he played 16...Kd7. (After Kd8 it shifted the advantage to white).
More specifically, it recommends 16..Kd7 followed by 17 Bc3 Nf5, and seems to think that this sequence gets black out of trouble. But this may just be the limitations of my program.
(By the way, thanks to all who participated in this. Let's do it again sometime!)
13 Jun 06
Originally posted by jgvaccaroI agree. I think Kd7 followed by Nf5 was a better course for Black.
I'd be interested in seeing some computer analysis of this game. The only analysis program I have (Chess Dragon with Crafty) had black up more than a pawn from the rook sacrifice until 16...Kd8, and said that black would have retained this advantage had he played 16...Kd7. (After Kd8 it shifted the advantage to white).
More specifically, it recommen ...[text shortened]... rogram.
(By the way, thanks to all who participated in this. Let's do it again sometime!)