01 Sep 19
@divegeester saidEvidently in your case, it's willfully ignorant. As such, you'll continue to pretend that the following passage doesn't exist:
They were the words of Jesus, you know, while he walked the earth and all.
Sorry to have burst your little fake bubble.
The fact is that Jesus calls His followers to become one with God as He was one with God:
John 17
20“I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22“The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; 23I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.
01 Sep 19
@thinkofone saidWhy would you quote verse 20?
Evidently in your case, it's willfully ignorant. As such, you'll continue to pretend that the following passage doesn't exist:
The fact is that Jesus calls His followers to become one with God as He was one with God:
John 17
20“I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21that they may all be one; even as You, Fat ...[text shortened]... ed in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.
In this verse Jesus wants us to believe that God sent Him.
Isn't this the question you have been unwilling to answer?
Baffling.
01 Sep 19
2 edits
@chaney3 saidNot really. DG originally tossed out that off-topic red herring question as a way to avoid addressing the on-topic point that I had made. Just because he spammed this forum for months-on-end and others have followed suit doesn't make it any less of an off-topic red herring question. I'm sure you've seen this explanation more than a few times over that period of time. What part of it don't you understand?
Why would you quote verse 20?
In this verse Jesus wants us to believe that God sent Him.
Isn't this the question you have been unwilling to answer?
Baffling.
01 Sep 19
1 edit
@thinkofone saidSorry ThinkofOne, but I understand the situation perfectly.
Not really. DG originally tossed out that off-topic red herring question as a way to avoid addressing the on-topic point that I had made. Just because he spammed this forum for months-on-end and others have followed suit doesn't make it any less of an off-topic red herring question. I'm sure you've seen this explanation more than a few times over that period of time. What part of it don't you understand?
Calling it a red herring, for months, is no reason not to answer the question.
And....in this case, you personally quoted the very verse that demands an answer to whether you believe God sent Jesus.
It is now an on topic question, brought on by yourself.
@chaney3 saidIt was a red herring. It is a red herring. It will always be a red herring. That dumbs it down about as much as I care to.
Sorry ThinkofOne, but I understand the situation perfectly.
Calling it a red herring, for months, is no reason not to answer the question.
And....in this case, you personally quoted the very verse that demands an asnswer to whether you believe God sent Jesus.
It is now an on topic question, brought on by yourself.
What's truly baffling is that for someone who seems to understand that DG and GoaD are amongst the biggest trolls in this forum, you have fallen for their trolling in this case, hook line and sinker.
01 Sep 19
@thinkofone saidIt's not my intent here to troll.
It was a red herring. It is a red herring. It will always be a red herring. That dumbs it down about as much as I care to.
What's truly baffling is that for someone who seems to understand that DG and GoaD are amongst the biggest trolls in this forum, you have fallen for their trolling in this case, hook line and sinker.
It's an important question that each of us needs to answer.
01 Sep 19
@chaney3 saidI didn't say that you're here to troll.
It's not my intent here to troll.
It's an important question that each of us needs to answer.
The point is that you've fallen for their trolling. They spin their little webs - often using lies and deceit - and evidently you've fallen into one. It's a pity.
01 Sep 19
@thinkofone saidIn this particular case, I wanted to hear your answer to the question.
I didn't say that you're here to troll.
The point is that you've fallen for their trolling. They spin their little webs - often using lies and deceit - and evidently you've fallen into one. It's a pity.
If you want to maintain privacy regarding what you believe, then why not just say so?
I will not bring up this matter again.
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01 Sep 19
3 edits
Oh my....... So Almighty God died huh?
I will take the point that I could not QUOTE the Bible that "The Almighty DIED". Point taken.
I cannot find a verse which explicitly says that.
But if we stick with the word of God though it did not say "God died" it does say that God purchased the church with His own blood.
" Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, ... to shepherd the church of God, which He obtained with His own blood." (See Acts 20:28)
Now do you have the explicit passage saying Jesus Christ is the archangel Michael ?
That's different, huh?
Show me the passage saying Michael the archangel lives in us (the Christians).
It says Christ lives in us - Second Corinthians 13:5.
"Test yourselves whether you are in the faith; prove yourselves. Or do you not realize about yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are disapproved?"
Show us Michael the archangel lives in us.
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01 Sep 19
3 edits
So if he did, who resurrected him? Himself? You say he was dead. How is it possible that God could actually die and then resurrect himself?
That I cannot locate a verse saying "God died" is a point I will accept.
But if you look carefully at Romans 8:9-11 you will see that Christ is a label used interchangeably with "the Spirit of the One Who raised Jesus from the dead."
Seamlessly, in one breath, Paul interchanges " the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, Christ, and the Spirit of the One Who raised Jesus from the dead."
"But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ he is not of Him. But if Christ be in you , though the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortals bodies through His Spirit who indwells you." (Romans 8:9-11)
The Spirit of God indwells the Christians.
Therefore the Spirit of Christ indwells the Christians making them Christ's.
Therefore Christ indwells the believers.
Therefore the Spirit of the One Who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in the believers.
But Christ is the one who died and was raised from the dead.
Yes, and indwelling the one who receives Christ it the Spirit of the One Who raised Jesus from the dead.
He is the Spirit of God.
He is the Spirit of Christ.
He is Christ.
And it IS amazing.
Now, you can tell us all why Paul did not use the title Michael, the archangel' in any of that discussion.
But the bible says Jesus died, not God ( Jehovah ) anywhere. If you think it does show me that scripture. Did Jesus not ask his Father ( Jehovah ) that "if it was his will to remove this cup" ( of death ) from him? So did Jesus ask himself to remove the death that he knew was coming? Did he answer himself?
Good point. However we ALSO have Jesus the Son of God saying that HE has the authority to lay down His life and He has the authority to take it up again.
And this is in the same chapter where Jesus says that the Father than greater than all. (John 10:29)
In the SAME CHAPTER He says -
" For this reason the Father loves Me, because I ay down My life that I may take it again.
No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself.
I have the authority to lay it down, and I have the authority to take it again. This commandment I received from My Father." (John 10:17,18)
Show us all where the Father commanded the archangel Michael to do this. Show us where the archangel Michael has authority to lay down his life and authority to take his life up again.
Psalms says this about Jehovah:
Psalm 36:9, 9 "With you is the source of life;
By your light we can see light."
Concerning Christ it says "In Him was life and the life was the light of men" (John 1:4)
Where does it say with Michael the archangel is life and with Michael the archangel is the light of men?
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01 Sep 19
1 edit
If all life comes from God (Jehovah), how did he give himself life again if he was dead?
But when John quotes the prophet Zechariah he says that they pierced (unto death of course) the One coming on the clouds of heaven.
"Behold, He comes with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, and all the tribes of the land will mourn over Him. Yes, amen.
This is a direct reference to God saying Zechariah 12:10.
"And I [Jehovah] will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and of supplications;
and they will look upon Me [Jehovah], whom they have pierced; and they will wail over Him with bitter crying as for a firstborn son." (Zech. 12:10)
What John saw and wrote about the tribes of the land mourning over the PIERCED One as He comes on the clouds of heaven, the Almighty totally endorses and back it up.
Sure He does. Look at both passages consecutively.
" Behold, He comes with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who PIERCED HIM; and all THE TRIBES OF THE LAND will mourn over Him. Yes, amen. (v.7)
I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, He who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty." (v.8)
The One coming on the clouds who was PIERCED is the Almighty. He is the One who is coming.
Show us where Michael the archangel is pierced or mourned over or comes with the clouds as the Alpha and the Omega - the Almighty.
01 Sep 19
1 edit
@thinkofone saidSo you are completely ignoring the two scriptures I gave you?
Evidently in your case, it's willfully ignorant. As such, you'll continue to pretend that the following passage doesn't exist:
The fact is that Jesus calls His followers to become one with God as He was one with God:
John 17
20“I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21that they may all be one; even as You, Fat ...[text shortened]... ed in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.
Wilfully ignorant huh...Shall I restart your own personal thread about my question to you which you won’t answer?
02 Sep 19
@sonship saidExtraordinary claims DO require extraordinary proof . Got any proof yet ?
@caissad4
I am a non-theist , not atheist .
To the point at hand, it makes little difference how you label yourself.
You said if I did not condone rape, murder, etc. it was good for me.
Why is it good for me and not bad for me?
Prove to me there is a god
It makes little difference to the point at hand.
You say something was goo ...[text shortened]...
So you say that was good because the majority secular society determined what was good behavior ?
The Germany you speak of was a decidedly Christian country (Catholic and Lutheran ) where the birthday of the Fuhrer was celebrated from the pulpit of all Catholic churches . And the Fuhrer was a Catholic .
02 Sep 19
@caissad4 saidIt's actually to save us from our own sins.
You mean that thing where god sacrificed himself to himself to save mankind from himself ?
That is more astounding rubbish from the New Testament .
He gave us freedom, but He also gave us guidance and a way out of the hells that we create for ourselves.