A Greater Work than Creation

@caissad4

Ultimate righteousness , ultimate righteousness . You are slightly deluded .

You don't think the moral buck stops anywhere?

You personally endorse rape , murder , slavery , genocide , incest , misogyny and a host many other crimes through your "righteous god " . I retract my statement that you are reasonably sane . I was mistaken .

Are you saying that by some moral ruler somewhere these are inexcusable wrongs, YET there is no "ultimate righteousness" ?

You are stealing from God in order to object to God.

And I don't endorse any of those things.
But you are outraged at moral crimes on on hand and on the other want the freedom to say it is all relative and there is not final standard of good conduct.

Don't you want your cake and to eat it too ?

@sonship said
@caissad4

Ultimate righteousness , ultimate righteousness . You are slightly deluded .

You don't think the moral buck stops anywhere?

[quote]
You personally endorse rape , murder , slavery , genocide , incest , misogyny and a host many other crimes through your "righteous god " . I retract my statement that you are reasonably sane . I was mista ...[text shortened]... ve and there is not final standard of good conduct.

Don't you want your cake and to eat it too ?

I am very pleased to see that you specifically do not endorse the evil actions of the Abrahamic god. Good for you .

@caissad4

I am very pleased to see that you specifically do not endorse the evil actions of the Abrahamic god. Good for you .

Hold on now. Not so fast.

WHY is it "good" for me ? Is there a REAL good ? Or is it all just relative and personal or illusionary?

It is "good for me" because ------ ? in your atheist view where no God is ?

It is "good for me" because you are the final arbitrator of goodness verses not goodness, and you proclaim what is universally right?

I am very pleased to see that you specifically do not endorse the evil actions of the Abrahamic god. Good for you .

Why is it good for me ?

@sonship said
@caissad4

I am very pleased to see that you specifically do not endorse the evil actions of the Abrahamic god. Good for you .

Hold on now. Not so fast.

WHY is it "good" for me ? Is there a REAL good ? Or is it all just relative and personal or illusionary?

It is "good for me" because ------ ? in your atheist view where no God is ?

It is ...[text shortened]... re the final arbitrator of goodness verses not goodness, and you proclaim what is universally right?

I am a non-theist , not atheist . Prove to me there is a god , any god , and I would acknowledge that there is a god . I had a thread which had well over 1200 responses with no proof of existence of any god .
You , as well as me , are free to designate an action as good or not . But, rejecting rape , murder , incest , genocide , slavery , misogyny and other crimes as acceptable behavior is seen in the secular community as positive moral behavior . How a religionist may view these crimes may vary.

@caissad4 said
I am a non-theist , not atheist . Prove to me there is a god , any god , and I would acknowledge that there is a god . I had a thread which had well over 1200 responses with no proof of existence of any god .
You , as well as me , are free to designate an action as good or not . But, rejecting rape , murder , incest , genocide , slavery , misogyny and other crimes as accep ...[text shortened]... the secular community as positive moral behavior . How a religionist may view these crimes may vary.

You were presented evidence, in this life that is all we get that there God is real, except when God reveals Himself to us. You choose to ignore or put your hands over your eyes refusing to look at things that might cause you to doubt some of the things your current beliefs hang on to, to avoid God.

@kellyjay said
You were presented evidence, in this life that is all we get that there God is real, except when God reveals Himself to us. You choose to ignore or put your hands over your eyes refusing to look at things that might cause you to doubt some of the things your current beliefs hang on to, to avoid God.

You presented no evidence .
You are lying , as you endlessly do.

@caissad4 said
You presented no evidence .
You are lying , as you endlessly do.

I pointed out to you that the entire universe we live in is evidence. Your denying it doesn't change anything. You cannot account for where everything came from just by looking at the material world and nothing else. Things don't create themselves out of nothing.

I can point to life, no one knows how life started. We cannot even come up with a theory on how it began from non-living material that is remotely possible. That too points to something far beyond the material world only.

I'm not lying, you are just refusing to entertain the notion you could be wrong, so you refuse to acknowledge what is right in front of your eyes.

@sonship said
I believe the creation of the universe out of nothing was truly a great work of God. But greater then this was His humbling Himself to a lower status in incarnation to become a man.

The steps God took long after creation to become one of us and walk among us we, I think, and even more astounding work of God.

The notion of Emmanuel, God with us is I think a pillar in my faith.

The notion that this same person will be overseeing the eternal agonising torture of those who have not believed in him, out of choice, naughtiness or otherwise...is a stumbling block for millions.

@kellyjay said
I pointed out to you that the entire universe we live in is evidence. Your denying it doesn't change anything. You cannot account for where everything came from just by looking at the material world and nothing else. Things don't create themselves out of nothing.

I can point to life, no one knows how life started. We cannot even come up with a theory on how it began from ...[text shortened]... ain the notion you could be wrong, so you refuse to acknowledge what is right in front of your eyes.

The entire universe we live in could also be evidence for the Flying Spaghetti Monster or even the Easter Bunny . You claim to know something which you DO NOT know . You , by contrast , are of the opinion that a god is a valid response to anything which you do not know or cannot prove . I am not afraid to say "I do not know " . You make up answers and call it truth . You continually lie .

@caissad4

I am a non-theist , not atheist .

To the point at hand, it makes little difference how you label yourself.
You said if I did not condone rape, murder, etc. it was good for me.
Why is it good for me and not bad for me?

Prove to me there is a god

It makes little difference to the point at hand.
You say something was good for me.
How do you know that?

, any god , and I would acknowledge that there is a god . I had a thread which had well over 1200 responses with no proof of existence of any god .

That is not what I saw. I saw a person say extraordinary proof has to be offered. And then extraordinary proof must itself require more extraordinary proof. It seems inherent with the challenge - an infinite regress of extraordinary justifications for extraordinary justifications.

I saw a jury rigged argument designed to be an infinite regress that could never be answered to the skeptic's standard.

You can't "prove" to me that you would accept proof.

But the question here is how do you know what would be good for me when you strongly imply there is no ultimate standard of good?

You , as well as me , are free to designate an action as good or not . But, rejecting rape , murder , incest , genocide , slavery , misogyny and other crimes as acceptable behavior is seen in the secular community as positive moral behavior .

And if the majarity of a secular community decides that all the Jews should be rounded up and sent to murder camps, that's good too ?

The consensus of the secular society was the Final Solution must be the thing to do. Majority consensus made that good too ?

How a religionist may view these crimes may vary.

So far the voice of the secular society determines what is the good, you say. The positive moral behavior was to either rat out where the Jews were living and hiding in Germany or look the other way in apathy as six million were slaughtered.

So you say that was good because the majority secular society determined what was good behavior ?

@sonship said
I believe the creation of the universe out of nothing was truly a great work of God. But greater then this was His humbling Himself to a lower status in incarnation to become a man.

The steps God took long after creation to become one of us and walk among us we, I think, and even more astounding work of God.

Jesus never claimed to be God incarnate.

To believe Jesus did is an astounding work of self-delusion.

@thinkofone said
Jesus never claimed to be God incarnate.

To believe Jesus did is an astounding work of self-delusion.

“I and the father are one.”

“When you have seen me, you have seen the father.”

@divegeester said
“I and the father are one.”

“When you have seen me, you have seen the father.”

For the ignorant and those with simplistic views; quotes such as those, taken out of context, seem to hold sway.

The fact is that Jesus calls His followers to become one with God as He was one with God:
John 17
20“I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22“The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; 23I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.

@thinkofone said
For the ignorant and those with simplistic views; quotes such as those, taken out of context, seem to hold sway.

They were the words of Jesus, you know, while he walked the earth and all.

Sorry to have burst your little fake bubble.