@sonship said"But if we stick with the word of God though it did not say "God died" it does say that God purchased the church with His own blood. "
@galveston75
Oh my....... So Almighty God died huh?
I will take the point that I could not QUOTE the Bible that "The Almighty DIED". Point taken.
I cannot find a verse which explicitly says that.
But if we stick with the word of God though it did not say "God died" it does say that God purchased the church with His own blood.
" ...[text shortened]... t is in you, unless you are disapproved?"
Show us Michael the archangel lives in us.
But yet in your OP you said "that he purchased it with his own blood." So you say Jesus is God ( Jehovah ) and did not Jesus or God ( Jehovah ) die on the stake? Wouldn't one have to die to be able to shed this blood?
Don't you understand how this does not make sense?
The Bible clearly says Jehovah or almighty God cannot die. He has always been and will always be. But now with the confusion of the trinity doctrine involved it now blurs the lines of who is who.
So did Jehovah God die or was it Jesus who died? Did the Holy Spirit also die? If they are truly all the same god they all would have to die in order for the trinity to follow it's description of the trinity, but still the really obvious question is who resurrected this 3 in 1 God?
So now if you were to step back and understand that Jesus and his Father or two separate spiritual beings you might understand who they really are. Jehovah can never die. But his son did. It was Jesus's blood that was shed, not his Father Jehovah's blood. A spiritual being does not have blood.....
Your posting: "and they will look upon Me, whom they have pierced; and they will wail over Him with bitter crying as for a firstborn son." (Zech. 12:10)
Hummm? Are you sure this is what this scripture says or has one little word here to make this fit the trinity doctrine been changed? Go back and read the scripture you posted again.
Then try this one from the Revised Standard Version....
Zechariah 12:10 (Revised Standard Version.)
10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of compassion and supplication, so that, (when they look on him (not me) whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for (him, (not me) as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a first-born.
Yes some bibles do use the word (me) where this scripture says (him). But this makes no sense in the explanation that Jehovah is making. If it were (me) Jehovah is speaking about, the next word that says (him) makes no sense and should be (me) again.
But he is speaking of Jesus and not himself. So possibly the word that some bibles say is (me) instead of (him) did not change the second word which does say (him) was missed or just not touched. Maybe many of the bibles which say this contradiction in that scripture were influenced by the trinity doctrine?
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Jesus never claimed to be God incarnate.
To believe Jesus did is an astounding work of self-delusion.
Yes He did. Firstly, while you don't think what is said OF Christ, not in the first person yet by the prophets and apostles, is not important. This philosophy has to be rejected. Because in doing so, ironically and diabolically you end up being that third person prophetic voice anyway telling about Christ. You become a counterfeit apostle and a false prophet, at best a faulty conveyor of the Scripture.
So:
1.) What is said by the Bible about Jesus, even if not in first person from the so-called "red letters" is terribly significant, not to be ignored. I totally reject your strategy to assign all such words as not the words of Jesus as He walked the earth.
2.) He said He was God and says He is God post resurrection. (See Rev. 1:17,18)
First in His earthly ministry He said He was the God of the Old Testament who longed to bring under His protection the children of Israel and Jerusalem.
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I desired to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not." (Matt. 23:37)
From the Life Study of Matthew by Witness Lee. [my bolding]
A. Jerusalem Killing the Prophets
Verse 37 says, “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!” Jerusalem and her children were chosen by God to fulfill His purpose. However, when God sent His prophets to them, they killed them.
B. The Lord as a
Hen
Desiring to Gather Her Children
Together under Her Wings
Verse 37 also says, “How often I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her young under her wings, and you would not!” It has always been God Himself who cared for Jerusalem, like a bird fluttering over her young (Isa. 31:5; Deut. 32:11-12). Hence, when the Lord Jesus said, “I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her young under her wings,” He indicated that He was God Himself. The Lord is like a loving bird, fluttering, brooding, over her young. Often He desired to gather the children of Jerusalem together, but they were not willing. As the Lord Jesus was declaring this final word to them, He was still like a loving hen, stretching out His wings to brood over the little ones. But they were not willing to be gathered under His wings.
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Your posting: "and they will look upon Me, whom they have pierced; and they will wail over Him with bitter crying as for a firstborn son." (Zech. 12:10)
My posting is QUOTING Zechariah 12:10 the Recovery Version. we can look at other English translations shortly.
Hummm? Are you sure this is what this scripture says
I am much more sure that it says "and they will look upon Me, whom they have pierced; and they will wail over Him with wailing ... etc." then your assertion that Christ is Michael the archangel.
Hmmm.
or has one little word here to make this fit the trinity doctrine been changed? Go back and read the scripture you posted again.
It is consistent with the vision of Christ coming on the clouds in Revelation 1:7 in John's vision and the tribes of the Holy Land seeing Him come and mourning over Him. That is the word of God.
Hmmm.
Then try this one from the Revised Standard Version....
Zechariah 12:10 (Revised Standard Version.)
10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of compassion and supplication, so that, (when they look on him (not me) whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for (him, (not me) as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a first-born.
Please show me by some linguistic tools exactly WHICH Hebrew words in Zechariah 12:10 translate to "(not me)".
This is called a paraphrase with some editorial "assistance". In the opinion of the editors they are helping the English reader. Such "help" as (not me) is not literal and it is also an opinion which not all translators share. Not even all paraphrase translations agree with the RSV there.
NIV They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him
New Living Translation
They will look on me whom they have pierced and mourn for him as for an only son.
English Standard Version
so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child,
Berean Study Bible
and they will look on Me, the One they have pierced. They will mourn for Him as one mourns an only child, and weep bitterly for Him as one grieves a firstborn son
New American Standard Bible
so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son,
How about we consult the 1901 American Standard Bible which the Jehovah's Witnesses use to take from door to door before they came up with their own New World Translation.
American Standard Bible 1901
and they shall look unto me whom they have pierced; and they shall mourn for him
Hmmm. The Bible that Watchtower use to publish and distribute to their students agreed with the Recovery Version Bible.
Recovery Version Bible
"and they will look upon Me, whom they have pierced; and they will wail over Him with wailings as for an only son ..."
Yes some bibles do use the word (me) where this scripture says (him).
I think the issue is that literally (not me) in the Revised Standard is completely an editorial addition. It is like "help" in someone's opinion as to how the verse reads. While they have the right to do that, we do not have to take their suggestion.
A more "wooden" translation like the ASV 1901 sacrifices good sounding English to pass to us what the Hebrew said.
"and they shall look unto me whom they have pierced; and they shall mourn for him..."
I stop here for length.
@caissad4 saidSure it could be evidence for anything, but that is the point; it is evidence. Not knowing yet proclaiming something is not true is a bit much without knowledge; knowing something is not possible cannot be done unless something about it is known, or the claim of not being real is only an assertion it is not a truth claim.
The entire universe we live in could also be evidence for the Flying Spaghetti Monster or even the Easter Bunny . You claim to know something which you DO NOT know . You , by contrast , are of the opinion that a god is a valid response to anything which you do not know or cannot prove . I am not afraid to say "I do not know " . You make up answers and call it truth . You continually lie .
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But this makes no sense in the explanation that Jehovah is making. If it were (me) Jehovah is speaking about, the next word that says (him) makes no sense and should be (me) again.
Hold on. We read in Isaiah 9:6 that His first name is WONDERFUL. That word is used to speak elsewhere of something that was too high and could not be easily attained by limited human comprehension.
From The Testimony of Church History Regarding the Mystery of the Triune God by Bill Freeman, [my spacing]
The Hebrew word pehleh, translated "Wonderful" in Isaiah 9:6, means something unusual, unheard of, extraordinary, hard to understand, beyond one's power, too difficult, and incomprehensible.
The same root word is used in three other places that illustrate its meaning:
"Is anything too hard for the Lord?" (Gen. 18:14);
"Such knowldge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it" (Psa. 139:6);
"But the angel of the Lord said to him, Why do you ask My name, seeing it is Wonderful?" (Judges 13:18)
That they PIERCED ME [Jehovah God] and wail and mourn over him is pehleh. It is extraordinary and beyond our typical skills. It is very high knowledge about the wonderful nature of God.
We can know God, commune with God, fellowship with God yet not fully be able to EXPLAIN God.
But he is speaking of Jesus and not himself.
He is speaking of ME - Jehovah God whom they pierced.
And He is also speaking of a "him" over whom they will wail.
And John says all the tribes of the land will wail at seeing Christ coming on the clouds in the Holy Land. He is the God as a man whom they pierced on the cross.
You are of an organization which is dedicated to fighting against this revelation, and that from door to door.
So possibly the word that some bibles say is (me) instead of (him) did not change the second word which does say (him) was missed or just not touched. Maybe many of the bibles which say this contradiction in that scripture were influenced by the trinity doctrine?
Stop complaining about the trinity. The Hebrew has written something which is wonderfully revealing about the nature of God. The "child ... born" is called "Mighty God". And the "son ... given" is called "Eternal Father". (Isa. 9:6)
@chaney3 saidTry to keep in mind what the likes of DG, GoaD and FMF are about. They are largely here to divert attention from a given topic-at-hand by making remarks about posters and tossing out other red herrings - often using lies and other forms of deceit - and getting other posters to repeat them. Hopefully that will keep you from falling into traps in the future.
In this particular case, I wanted to hear your answer to the question.
If you want to maintain privacy regarding what you believe, then why not just say so?
I will not bring up this matter again.
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I strayed from the OP.
That God humbled Himself to cloth Himself in His own creation is astounding.
"The Word became flesh" (John 1:14) .
There is no argument that flesh is an item of creation.
Man is created by God (Gen. 1:26).
And there is no argument that the Word was God.
Can you imagine that Jesus lived in Nazareth for 30 years and made no particular stir. He was Emmanuel. He was God become a man. And He blended in with all the towns people causing no particular commotion.
I think this is one of the greatest miracles in the Bible perhaps. That is that for 30 years God lived a normal human life blending in with the peoples around Him. He clothed Himself in humanity. The Eternal and the Finite become united in one Person.
Then at the age of the priesthood He went forth in ministry and spoke for three and one half cataclysmic years. The world has never been the same.
Was this a work greater then God creating the universe - ie. His incarnation and human living ?
@sonship saidAgain..Oh my. You say so much but yet say so little.
I strayed from the OP.
That God humbled Himself to cloth Himself in His own creation is astounding.
"The Word became flesh" (John 1:14) .
There is no argument that flesh is an item of creation.
Man is created by God (Gen. 1:26).
And there is no argument that the Word was God.
Can you imagine that Jesus lived in Nazareth for 30 years ...[text shortened]...
Was this a work greater then God creating the universe - ie. His incarnation and human living ?
@galveston75 saidGod cannot die. When Jesus died, he died as a human, the Word that became flesh. Who was with God and was God. Jesus said that He laid His life down and that He picked it up again, so the name would be Jesus. Jesus prayed to His Father in Heaven before His death as a human. He also made claims like, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."
Just a few simple questions that need only simple answers....
Can Almighty God die? Yes or no....
If yes did he die as a man here on earth? Yes or no...
If he did, who resurrected him? A name would be fine here...
Who prayed to Almighty God in heaven before his death?
John 10:17
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
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@kellyjay saidTalk about convoluted.Do you honestly believe it's "evil" to not believe it?
When Jesus died, he died as a human, the Word that became flesh. Who was with God and was God. Jesus said that He laid His life down and that He picked it up again, so the name would be Jesus. Jesus prayed to His Father in Heaven before His death as a human.
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Again..Oh my. You say so much but yet say so little.
You may regard that you say much. But the Bible says what God wants the world to hear.
To say as much as you want to say to counter the Bible, you had to concoct a doctrine in which the archangel Michael is the Son of God.
Many words and much error, too much deception.