Atheist Delusion

Originally posted by josephw
You think you know I don't, but I do.

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind. Everything in existence was created, and I know the one that created everything. I am as certain as you are uncertain.

This is the dodge Joe.

I accept that you view creation as sufficient evidence for a creator. You just haven't explained why this evidence supports the creator you believe in and not the 3 Gods of creation Hindus believe in.

It is not enough to simply say there is 'absolutely no doubt in your mind.' and that you 'know the one who created everything.' That does not qualify as conclusive evidence for you argument. If creation alone is evidence for a creator (that atheists are delusional not to recognise) why is your creator God anymore likely than the creation Gods of Hinduism? Why is creation not equally valid to support these Hindu Gods?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
The fact that you don't know that the sun will rise tomorrow morning doesn't mean that you have no justification to believe with a certain amount of certainty that it will.

Do you have a point?

Originally posted by josephw
Well, that causes me to wonder how you justify atheism.

I rather doubt that, given that you don't ask.

Seems one would need to define the terms to justify the belief that there is no God.
Yes, one probably would.

That would be subjective justification.
No, it wouldn't.

Objective observation of the universe would be a more justified means of determination.
You need to clarify your meaning here. I could guess at your meaning, but last time I did that you accused me of lying and other forms of dishonesty (and then ran away without justifying your false accusation). So rather than guess, I ask you to rephrase that in understandable english please.

The question of the origin of the universe is answered by its very existence. The knowledge of the existence of the universe is justification for determining that it exists because it was created.
Again, please clarify, because taken at face value that makes no sense.

To believe the universe exists without a cause is unjustified because such knowledge doesn't exist in human experience.
Don't confuse your own ignorance with general ignorance. That is the same mistake Kelly has been making.

Originally posted by josephw
I did say atheists are delusional and lying to themselves. So what?

So don't pretend that Ghost of a Duke will get unreasonably offended at just about anything you say. He was offended by a particular claim you made and you are well aware of that fact. Pretending otherwise is dishonest of you.

I've been told worse and I'm not crying about it. It's just part of the program. Get over it.
Whether you have been told worse, does not excuse your behaviour. Repaying evil for evil doesn't make it less evil. Lying because you were once lied to does not make you any less of a liar.
And I am not crying about anything, I was just calling you out for falsely suggesting that Ghost of a Duke would get offended by you merely stating your beliefs. I note that you lack the honesty to admit it and the humility to apologize to him for your disingenuousness.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Do you have a point?

Beliefs can have justification, contrary to what you have stated.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Beliefs can have justification, contrary to what you have stated.

I stated no such thing. Learn to read.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I stated no such thing. Learn to read.

"But that is belief, not knowledge. Knowledge requires justification. You don't have justification." -TH

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
"But that is belief, not knowledge. Knowledge requires justification. You don't have justification." -TH

Beliefs can have justification, contrary to what you have stated. -FMJ

Sorry, but you need to do a course on reading comprehension.

Originally posted by twhitehead
[b]Beliefs can have justification, contrary to what you have stated. -FMJ

Sorry, but you need to do a course on reading comprehension.[/b]

What then were you implying?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
What then were you implying?

I wasn't implying anything. My statement is a clear, straightforward statement of fact without any intended implications. It was you that tried to make up implications as strawmans for you to attack.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I wasn't implying anything. My statement is a clear, straightforward statement of fact without any intended implications. It was you that tried to make up implications as strawmans for you to attack.

J: There's absolutely no doubt in my mind. Everything in existence was created, and I know the one that created everything. I am as certain as you are uncertain.

T: Nobody doubts that you are certain. But that is belief, not knowledge. Knowledge requires justification. You don't have justification.

So do you agree that beliefs that are not 'knowledge' can have justification or not? Yes or No?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So do you agree that beliefs that are not 'knowledge' can have justification or not? Yes or No?

Yes, I agree. And nothing I said implied otherwise. It remains the case that Joseph does not have any such justification for his beliefs therefore they are not knowledge.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Yes, I agree. And nothing I said implied otherwise. It remains the case that Joseph does not have any such justification for his beliefs therefore they are not knowledge.

Which of these two statements would you say is true?

1. You know that Joseph has no justification for his beliefs?

OR

2. You believe that Joseph has no justification for his beliefs?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Which of these two statements would you say is true?

1. You know that Joseph has no justification for his beliefs?

OR

2. You believe that Joseph has no justification for his beliefs?

2. tending to 1. ie I am fairly sure given what he has said in this thread.

Originally posted by twhitehead
2. tending to 1. ie I am fairly sure given what he has said in this thread.

And if Joseph were to claim that he was 'fairly sure', how can you be in a position to judge that he isn't?