Atheist Delusion

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
And if Joseph were to claim that he was 'fairly sure', how can you be in a position to judge that he isn't?

Sorry, but I grow tired of your endless stupid questions. When you have a genuine point to make, make it.
Do you admit that you misread my original post several times, despite that fact being pointed out to you?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Sorry, but I grow tired of your endless stupid questions. When you have a genuine point to make, make it.
Do you admit that you misread my original post several times, despite that fact being pointed out to you?

You claim to know something that you cannot know, i.e that Joseph has no justification for his beliefs. You may believe he has no justification for his beliefs, you can't know it since he is the only one in the position to judge whether or not his own beliefs are justified. Or do you believe you alone possess the universal standard for what constitutes justification and what doesn't?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
You claim to know something that you cannot know, i.e that Joseph has no justification for his beliefs. You may believe he has no justification for his beliefs, you can't know it since he is the only one in the position to judge whether or not his own beliefs are justified. Or do you believe you alone possess the universal standard for what constitutes justification and what doesn't?

Of course he can know that josephw has no justification for his beliefs. His beliefs are based in hope, fantasy and magical thinking. If he were an honest man, he would admit it himself, as would you.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
You claim to know something that you cannot know,

Just a couple of posts ago, I explicitly stated that I did not do so after you specifically asked me about it. Given that I was very clear on the matter, I have to say that you are outright lying here - presumably because that is your 'point' you have desperately been trying to force by inventing strawmen and asking stupid questions.

Do you admit that:
1. You misread the original post of mine that you first responded to.
2. Have deliberately and maliciously misrepresented me in the post above.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
Of course he can know that josephw has no justification for his beliefs. His beliefs are based in hope, fantasy and magical thinking. If he were an honest man, he would admit it himself, as would you.

From his perspective, if you were an honest man, you would not deny the existence of God.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
From his perspective, if you were an honest man, you would not deny the existence of God.

Nope. Let me explain; if josephw is telling the truth, and he actually KNOWS that god exists, created the universe etc etc, then what of his faith? He has none. No faith is required to believe what is known. Faith is a central tenet of the religion that josephw claims to follow, and yet he has none. So we can only conclude that either he's not actually a christian, or he doesn't actually know what he claims to know.

Also, for the I-don't-know-how-manyth-time I don't deny the existence of god.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Just a couple of posts ago, I explicitly stated that I did not do so after you specifically asked me about it. Given that I was very clear on the matter, I have to say that you are outright lying here - presumably because that is your 'point' you have desperately been trying to force by inventing strawmen and asking stupid questions.

Do you admit that: ...[text shortened]... u first responded to.
2. Have deliberately and maliciously misrepresented me in the post above.

If you admit that you cannot know that Joseph has no justification for his beliefs then we are agreed.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
Nope. Let me explain; if josephw is telling the truth, and he actually KNOWS that god exists, created the universe etc etc, then what of his faith? He has none. No faith is required to believe what is known. Faith is a central tenet of the religion that josephw claims to follow, and yet he has none. So we can only conclude that either he's not actual ...[text shortened]... claims to know.

Also, for the I-don't-know-how-manyth-time I don't deny the existence of god.

You cannot know that the sun will rise tomorrow, but if you have faith that it will, is your faith justified or not?

Is there anything you know with absolute certainty that doesn't require a measure of faith? I would say your beliefs require more faith than his.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
Nope. Let me explain; if josephw is telling the truth, and he actually KNOWS that god exists, created the universe etc etc, then what of his faith? He has none. No faith is required to believe what is known. Faith is a central tenet of the religion that josephw claims to follow, and yet he has none. So we can only conclude that either he's not actual ...[text shortened]... claims to know.

Also, for the I-don't-know-how-manyth-time I don't deny the existence of god.

"No faith is required to believe what is known."

You're mistaken. Faith isn't about believing something you don't know is true. Faith is about staying true to what you know is true against all odds.

It isn't me with no faith, it's you. I know Jesus is Lord, and I will keep the faith by following Him to the end of my life.

Faith isn't believing something you don't know is true. That would be idiotic.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
You cannot know that the sun will rise tomorrow, but if you have faith that it will, is your faith justified or not?

Is there anything you know with absolute certainty that doesn't require a measure of faith? I would say your beliefs require more faith than his.

That's just nonsense, you don't know what, if any, beliefs I have.

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"No faith is required to believe what is known."

You're mistaken. Faith isn't about believing something you don't know is true. Faith is about staying true to what you know is true against all odds.

It isn't me with no faith, it's you. I know Jesus is Lord, and I will keep the faith by following Him to the end of my life.

Faith isn't believing something you don't know is true. That would be idiotic.[/b]

How can you not stay true to something you know is true? That's just asinine.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
That's just nonsense, you don't know what, if any, beliefs I have.

Take your pick, any belief you have that requires no faith. Give me your best shot.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If you admit that you cannot know that Joseph has no justification for his beliefs then we are agreed.

No, I admit no such thing. I have stated that I do not know, not that I cannot know. It is theoretically possible for me to know (if he told me for example).
And I note that you are yet to admit your mistakes and blatant dishonesty in earlier posts.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
You cannot know that the sun will rise tomorrow,

I can know, and do know that the sun will rise tomorrow. If you dispute that fact then define 'knowledge' as you are using it or we will just keep talking across each other.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
This is the dodge Joe.

I accept that you view creation as sufficient evidence for a creator. You just haven't explained why this evidence supports the creator you believe in and not the 3 Gods of creation Hindus believe in.

It is not enough to simply say there is 'absolutely no doubt in your mind.' and that you 'know the one who created everyth ...[text shortened]... an the creation Gods of Hinduism? Why is creation not equally valid to support these Hindu Gods?

As expected, no reply to this from Joe.