Barriers to belief

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So your views on the matter are not opinion and conjecture?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So where does the Bible say that you can loose your faith and not your salvation?

Originally posted by divegeester
Your position on not losing faith is completely unsupported by a wider view of the gospel writings. To conflate losing faith with losing salvation is also unsupported and contradictory to the premise of repentance, forgiveness and a loving god.

You seem to have built a Christian absolutism around yourself, based on I suspect a taught ideology which i ...[text shortened]... amily and someone cannot become a non-member of a family if they are born into it is impossible.

Originally posted by Eladar
Branches are broken off and grafted in so I don't think the born into a family thing is entirely accurate.

Originally posted by divegeester
David murdering Uriah and taking his wife

Moses murdering the Egyptian guard

Peter denying Christ

Need I go on? Or are you going to say these people acted in faith, or have lost their salvation?

The gospel and in fact the entire Bible is about man's relationship to God and the journey which describes the principle of adoption as sons over the millennia. Adoption in Hebrew has a deeper and profound meaning than in western society. The much derided teaching by Jesus of being "born again" is the key to understanding the sinners relationship to God. It is about spiritual rebirth into a new family, adoption as sons and it is irreversible.

The consequnses of sin are still apparent in terms of god's discipline but there is no condemnation for those that are in Christ. This is about spiritual DNA, not the size of one faith, the loss or regaining of faith, works, deeds, creeds, laws or sabbaths.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Where does the Bible specifically say that these people either 'lost their faith' or 'didn't loose their salvation' for that matter?

Originally posted by divegeester
You are denying an entire Biblical precept based on your interpretation on one parable, the parable of the vine?

Originally posted by Eladar
The vine was not a parable but an illustration of the new covenant where Jews were removed and gentiles grafted in.

As jesus said who are my brothers and sisters who is my mother? They were the believers not his physical relations.

Originally posted by divegeester
A parable is an illustration; but that's by the by. I take your point though.

If this illustration is about jews and gentiles and their relationship to the new convenant, then it doesn't support your previous position that it's about an individual's salvation, losing it, or regaining it, is it?

Originally posted by divegeester
The gospel and in fact the entire Bible is about man's relationship to God and the journey which describes the principle of adoption as sons over the millennia. Adoption in Hebrew has a deeper and profound meaning than in western society. The much derided teaching by Jesus of being "born again" is the key to understanding the sinners relationship to God. ...[text shortened]... t the size of one faith, the loss or regaining of faith, works, deeds, creeds, laws or sabbaths.

Originally posted by divegeester
Where does it say that they didn't? It depends I suppose on how you perceive faith.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Would you say someone who has 'lost their faith' and describes the Bible as Hebrew mythology and derides everything Biblical,

1. used to have genuine faith?
2. is still in Christ and faces no condemnation?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Sure those of faith can fall, but they will have a contrite heart, a broken spirit, and will call on God for forgiveness and will repent and turn their back on their sin.

Originally posted by divegeester
Neither; I'd describe them as: someone who has 'lost their faith' and describes the Bible as Hebrew mythology and derides everything Biblical