Barriers to belief

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
How do you define faith? Do you believe someone who had genuine faith can loose it? And can someone who lives in willful sin and defiance retain their salvation even if they never repent?

Here we go again.

You state precisely what you position on all of these is first, and we will see how we go...

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Your faith was either real or it wasn't. So which was it?

FMF has told you countless times that he thinks his faith was real. What's the matter with you, are you mentally handicapped in some way?

Originally posted by divegeester
That's just a cop out. Might as well say why does it matter what anyone thinks about anything?

No because the defition of sin matters. Call evil good and good evil then you end up not in heaven. You could burn for eternity or not it is not my call. I'd say you probably will.

Salvation issues are important. Debatable mayters are nit important.

Originally posted by Eladar
Fetch,

Can faith grow if it is not true?

Depends on what you mean by 'faith' and what you mean by 'true'?

Originally posted by divegeester
Here we go again.

You state precisely what you position on all of these is first, and we will see how we go...

Sigh. Another pass the buck dodge.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Depends on what you mean by 'faith' and what you mean by 'true'?

Faith I mean belief in God's truth, the good news.

Originally posted by divegeester
FMF has told you countless times that he thinks his faith was real. What's the matter with you, are you mentally handicapped in some way?

He said he thought it was real initially but now he knows it wasn't. So clearly now he thinks it wasn't real then even if he thought it was real at the time. He can't have it both ways. Either it was real initially or it wasn't. So that why I would like to know which it was?

Originally posted by Eladar
Faith I mean belief in God's truth, the good news.

I think faith is much deeper than just belief. Someone can believe the Bible but not put it's words into practice. They can do all the things church people do, go through the motions but not have real faith.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
I think faith is much deeper than just belief. Someone can believe the Bible but not put it's words into practice. They can do all the things church people do, go through the motions but not have real faith.

How do you know what fmf means when he says he believed? How do you know what fmf believes he had to put into action?

As I said Christian is a nebulous term. In itself it means nothing. Compare what a conservative Christian believes to what a moderate/liberal christian believes.

Simply saying you believe yourself to be a christian and I believe in God and a guy named Jesus means nothing.

Originally posted by Eladar
How do you know what fmf means when he says he believed? How do you know what fmf believes he had to put into action?

As I said Christian is a nebulous term. In itself it means nothing. Compare what a conservative Christian believes to what a moderate/liberal christian believes.

Simply saying you believe yourself to be a christian and I believe in God and a guy named Jesus means nothing.

Ok the way I see it God is the author and finisher of our faith. The good work that God starts in our lives He will bring it to completion. So if someone has faith it means God is the author, and God does not do an incomplete job he will always complete the good work that he has started. So if someone claims to have faith and then claims they have lost it they are claiming that God started something which He did not complete. So for me it makes more sense that they didn't have real faith to start off with. Do you think someone with genuine faith can loose it?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Ok the way I see it God is the author and finisher of our faith. The good work that God starts in our lives He will bring it to completion. So if someone has faith it means God is the author, and God does not do an incomplete job he will always complete the good work that he has started. So if some claims to have faith and then claims they have lost it t ...[text shortened]... not complete. So for me it makes more sense that they didn't have real faith to start off with.

But do you believe they must agree with you.

Because they won't.

I believe the parable of the seeds counters your belief but I don't require you to agree with me.

So yes I believe someone with true faith can lose it.

Parable of the king and the servant who owes him money shows that even saved you can lose salvation.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So clearly now he thinks it wasn't real then even if he thought it was real at the time. He can't have it both ways.

I am not "having it both ways". You've said that more than once. It's false. There is no "both ways" being had with my analysis of what I used to believe as it contrasts with what I believe now. There are two things, and I have explained them "both". But to keep claiming I am somehow "having it both ways" is just not true.

Originally posted by Eladar
But do you believe they must agree with you.

Because they won't.

I believe the parable of the seeds counters your belief but I don't require you to agree with me.

Why should they agree with me? Of course they wont. I am not saying my view is right and everyone else's view is wrong. At this point in time my view makes sense to me. If you have another view that makes more sense than mine I will surely change my view. Feel free to tell me why you think the parable of the seeds is referring to faith.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Why should they agree with me? Of course they wont. I am not saying my view is right and everyone else's view is wrong. Feel free to tell me why you think the parable of the seeds is referring to faith.

Faith I define as accepting the good news and believing it.

Originally posted by Eladar
Faith I define as accepting the good news and believing it.

Do you believe God is the author and finisher of our faith as it is written in the Bible?