15 Oct 23
@ghost-of-a-duke saidAlways, no.
I didn't ask you about if humans are capable of doing bad things. Of course they are. That is blatantly obvious. I asked you directly if a non believer giving water to the thirsty always has a secondary sinister motive?
If God indeed has His law, His will, ingrained on our very conscience, how is adhering to that conscience and giving water to the thirsty not a righteous act doing God's will?
15 Oct 23
@suzianne saidBlimey!
Why do you do this always?
Someone says "we" or "us" and suddenly you're all over them about it, often for page after page until they answer you. You can't seem to just take a post meant as a throwaway out into the ether for people to think about, perhaps to internally examine how they might heed the lesson, but that's never good enough for you. You see every post as ei ...[text shortened]...
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/what-about-me-effect-tik-tok-bean-soup_l_6525a8d9e4b0102e6963c51b
15 Oct 23
@medullah saidOk, my point is that there is no requirement to go out and preach. Some Christians, particularly the JWs, the SDAs and Mormons, make it a requirement ie they must do it to be part of that group. Jesus gave no such instruction to the masses to which he preached. He told his disciples who he gave the power of the Holy Spirit to do miracles etc., to go out and preach house to house.
We come back to the point that I've made a few times, that it's down to your understanding, what you have studied etc.
Personally I look at what happened after the disciples and we see that the preaching work continued on, which suggests to me that it wasn't for just the remaining disciples.
Apart from the obvious suspects there are other groups that follow that patt ...[text shortened]... was by holy spirit, threatening to weaponise that "gift" on another who questioned him. Interesting.
I do not believe in this nonsense that goes on in these churches either. Its all a sham and has been proven to be so over and over. Church pastors are mostly shameless, greedy and corrupt.
A man can reach and convert more people to the teachings of Christ by his lifestyle, behaviour and conduct. Jesus said :
Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 5:13-16 KJV)
Disciples of Christ go out and preach with the Holy Spirit.
Ordinary Christians - be the light of the world, and salt of the earth
15 Oct 23
@ghost-of-a-duke saidJesus said by their works you will know them. I think KJ has run contrary to Christ more often than not. He is therefore a false teacher. He is like the Levite and Preist in the Good Samaritan story.
I didn't ask you about if humans are capable of doing bad things. Of course they are. That is blatantly obvious. I asked you directly if a non believer giving water to the thirsty always has a secondary sinister motive?
If God indeed has His law, His will, ingrained on our very conscience, how is adhering to that conscience and giving water to the thirsty not a righteous act doing God's will?
15 Oct 23
@rajk999 saidThose that God makes righteous, that God redeems through Jesus Christ enter into God's Kingdom. You ignore Jesus by suggesting we do not need to be born again, you ignore Jesus by suggesting the works of God are to believe in Christ, you ignore Jesus when He says He is the vine and we must abide in Him. You ignore Jesus when He tells us the Father seeks those who would worship Him in spirit and truth. You ignore the scripture that says the righteous shall live by faith, you ignore the scripture that says we are saved by faith, not by works, you ignore scripture accept that which you approve of, provided you can make it say what you want. We will do the good works God has for us to do, and we will repent pick up our crosses and follow him. You have works alone be enough, there are not enough works that could cause God to ignore sin.
A evil goat like you will send the Good Samaritan to be tormented for eternity.
Jesus will welcome all the sheep / Good Samaritans of this world into his Kingdom.
Your type will be cast out.
15 Oct 23
@rajk999 saidDisciples of Christ go out and preach with the Holy Spirit.
Ok, my point is that there is no requirement to go out and preach. Some Christians, particularly the JWs, the SDAs and Mormons, make it a requirement ie they must do it to be part of that group. Jesus gave no such instruction to the masses to which he preached. He told his disciples who he gave the power of the Holy Spirit to do miracles etc., to go out and preach hou ...[text shortened]... h with the Holy Spirit.
Ordinary Christians - be the light of the world, and salt of the earth [/b]
Ordinary Christians - be the light of the world, and salt of the earth
You make distinctions where there are none, and even here you say Christians are the light of the world and salt of the earth, and in other places, you demonize them, hypocrite.
@kellyjay saidJesus commanded those who follow Him to be the salt of the earth and the light of the world. They are commanded to do that. They often dont. Like you, they instead follow the crooked pastor and the church, preaching against righteousness and good works. Your type is not the light of the world. You cannot be the light of the world and call everyone filthy sinners.
Disciples of Christ go out and preach with the Holy Spirit.
Ordinary Christians - be the light of the world, and salt of the earth
You make distinctions where there are none, and even here you say Christians are the light of the world and salt of the earth, and in other places, you demonize them, hypocrite.
@rajk999 saidI wonder how many people would be drawn to investigate Christianity if they stopped by to this forum and read how alleged Christians tore lumps out of each other with the aggressive narrative one would expect of enemies ? In fact the ones that profess NOT to have Christian faith in this forum are probably the more moderate in their interactions with others; they are regularly showing alleged Christians by example, of how it should be done.
Ok, my point is that there is no requirement to go out and preach. Some Christians, particularly the JWs, the SDAs and Mormons, make it a requirement ie they must do it to be part of that group. Jesus gave no such instruction to the masses to which he preached. He told his disciples who he gave the power of the Holy Spirit to do miracles etc., to go out and preach hou ...[text shortened]... h with the Holy Spirit.
Ordinary Christians - be the light of the world, and salt of the earth [/b]
Do you seriously think that the word of God would have been spread but for the efforts of those that went out and carried it after the first century, and I’m not referring to the organisations that cropped up in the eighteenth century ?
Matt 24:15 makes it clear that “this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations and then the end will come.” That couldn’t have been achieved if it weren’t for the efforts of the early converts spreading the word abroad by preaching. I cant imagine the message spreading to the British Isles if everyone sat on their bum in the second century hoping that a few kindnesses to the bloke next door would set the world on fire.
This stuff about pastors being mostly greedy is unprovable, more mud thrown at somebody else’s wall.
15 Oct 23
1 edit
@kellyjay saidI’m inclined to agree. Christians are Christians. They are all bound by the obligation of man.
Disciples of Christ go out and preach with the Holy Spirit.
Ordinary Christians - be the light of the world, and salt of the earth
You make distinctions where there are none, and even here you say Christians are the light of the world and salt of the earth, and in other places, you demonize them, hypocrite.
You can do things in different ways, but the obligation to teach, and preach and spread the word is there. To say that it can be achieved by people thinking that you are a wonderful chappie is naive, and possibly in denial.
15 Oct 23
@medullah saidWell again I strongly disagree. The ruling religious group in the time of Christ were the Pharisees and Jesus condemned them with some pretty insulting words - blind guides, fools, hypocrites, evil, children of Satan.
I wonder how many people would be drawn to investigate Christianity if they stopped by to this forum and read how alleged Christians tore lumps out of each other with the aggressive narrative one would expect of enemies ? In fact the ones that profess NOT to have Christian faith in this forum are probably the more moderate in their interactions with others; they are regularl ...[text shortened]... This stuff about pastors being mostly greedy is unprovable, more mud thrown at somebody else’s wall.
The word of God or the laws of God, is written in the hearts of all men. Let me know if you want the reference for that one. So if that is true, and it certainly is, then all these missionaries did was to go out there and spread their version the word of God. Now they may have done some good in some really backward and primitive people. Howewver if they went and spread stuff like what KJ is now promoting - all people are filthy sinners, nobody can do good works except Christians, then they did more harm than good to those poor people.
Christianity has typically NOT PREACHED THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST !!! They preach the doctrine of Paul and an incorrect one at that. They tell people profess faith and they are saved and not even God can stop them from getting eternal life. That doctrine is flawed and fatal. Paul was very clear to repeat what Jesus said about good works. Have you noticed that KJ has never, not one single time, told anyone here about doing good works? His mouth / hand, cannot say/type, those words. Yet almost all of Jesus teachings were along those lines. Pitiful
Pastors, even the simplest ones, in third world countries like where I am, about 90% live in big houses and drive nice cars, go on expensive holidays, while their congregation live is squalor and poverty. In rich countries they fly in private jets. You must be really blind if you cannot see that.
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15 Oct 23
@kellyjay saidYou made the odd post: - "Anyone can do a good work like giving water to the thirsty, that doesn’t mean the motivations in play can’t run counter to the one that was helped."
Always, no.
You now concede that non-believers don't always have a sinister motive for giving water to the thirsty. (I think it's a safe bet that 'most' don't have a sinister motive, but we'll leave it at that). - You are therefore also conceding (probably without thinking about it) that non believers 'are' capable of doing a righteous act.
I think what's going on here Kelly is that you are so determined to reject the idea that humans are righteous or that we can in some way earn salvation by our good works that you have squeezed yourself into a corner where all human actions are tainted and worthless and no acts are ever truly good. - 'Of course' nobody is perfect all of the time and good people are capable of doing bad things. But you have rather inanely thrown the baby out with the bath water. Humans can and have done truly bad things, but have also, on a daily basis around the world, done genuinely good things, that in a Christian context, certainly qualify as righteous.
If humans were not capable of acting righteously, passages like James 5:16 would make no sense:
"Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working."
@rajk999 saidWhat are you a sociopath, do you have a mental issue to keep making such claims about people you do not know and cannot name? Who are these crooked pastors you keep referring to? That is just a blanket statement thrown out by you over and over again, you say things like that as if they are in scripture too, do you think your nasty accusations should just be accepted as fact? What a deceiver.
Jesus commanded those who follow Him to be the salt of the earth and the light of the world. They are commanded to do that. They often dont. Like you, they instead follow the crooked pastor and the church, preaching against righteousness and good works. Your type is not the light of the world. You cannot be the light of the world and call everyone filthy sinners.