28 Nov 21
@kellyjay saidGood works is good and it is acceptable to Christ as stated clearly in Matt 25. Jesus cleanses people from sin, not you., Apparently you believe that you can do it but that is the job of Christ, So if Christ says that the good and righteous enter into eternal life and those who do no good works are cast out then I dont think you are in a position to argue.
No, what you just said is not true, "Works without faith is still good." for salvation. Good works are only that good works; nothing about them takes away our sins; they are not enough to please God since we have sinned against God, and no good works cleanse us from sin.
Are you saying that Jesus is mistaken?
29 Nov 21
@rajk999 saidYes, good works are good. That is not the point; anyone can do good work, it doesn't clear a sinner of their sins. What makes someone righteous to God, not what makes one man better than another?
Good works is good and it is acceptable to Christ as stated clearly in Matt 25. Jesus cleanses people from sin, not you., Apparently you believe that you can do it but that is the job of Christ, So if Christ says that the good and righteous enter into eternal life and those who do no good works are cast out then I dont think you are in a position to argue.
Are you saying that Jesus is mistaken?
2 Corinthians 5:21
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
God does things not because of us but His love for us; we are not worthy of His Kingdom on our own. It has always been this way from the beginning. We are sinners; while we were sinners, Christ died for us because of the Love of God for the whole world, not because we are worthy on our own, which you promote through our good deeds.
Matthew 6:33
But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
We are to seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness; you want people to attempt to be good enough in their righteousness by doing good works. No one will be righteous before God like that because we have all sinned and fallen short of Him. God's righteousness is found in Jesus Christ; outside of Christ, we are on our own, we must be connected to Him, abiding in Him.
You go on and on about how you follow Jesus' words, and when they don't line up with your doctrine, you either ignore or belittle. God uses us to spread His truth to us. He used prophets and apostles to foretell the coming of the Lord; they shared about His life while Christ walked as a man, and even afterward, those things that God gave them after Jesus rose from the dead. Nothing about what God gave them is ever in conflict with what Jesus said and did; the Holy Spirit and Jesus are one as they are with the Father. Yet, despite all of that, your doctrine goes against the truth the Lord used to share His truth about us from those He chose to use.
Romans 4:5-6
5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
Titus 3:5
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
We are not saved by our works of righteousness, but by His mercy, but by His love which is far better since it is everlasting while we are sinners.
How do you suggest that he will not deny those that deny Jesus given what Jesus said about those that deny Him?
Matthew 10:33
but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.
29 Nov 21
@kellyjay saidToo much rambling, too many nonsense questions and vague statements. So I aint reading all that, I just read the first paragraph
Yes, good works are good. That is not the point; anyone can do good work, it doesn't clear a sinner of their sins. What makes someone righteous to God, not what makes one man better than another?
Who said good works clears anyone of their sins? Jesus died for the sins of all of mankind and Jesus decide whose sins are cleared and whose are not. Not because you profess faith means you dont deny Jesus. You in particular have denied the commandments and teachings of Christ.
What makes someone righteous is their good works. Do you want the reference again?
29 Nov 21
@rajk999 saidThe references you give say that the righteous will have good works, not that good works alone causes us the right with God. God does that, not us; God sent Jesus to us, He became one of us, and through Him, we are saved by grace through faith. What you are proposing is earning our right standing before the King of the universe, the Lord God almighty, the most Righteous One there is, and He is the standard of righteousness that He accepts not our efforts to be good enough. If you think you can impress God by your efforts, you are mistaken.
Too much rambling, too many nonsense questions and vague statements. So I aint reading all that, I just read the first paragraph
Who said good works clears anyone of their sins? Jesus died for the sins of all of mankind and Jesus decide whose sins are cleared and whose are not. Not because you profess faith means you dont deny Jesus. You in particular have denied the ...[text shortened]... ngs of Christ.
What makes someone righteous is their good works. Do you want the reference again?
- Joined
- 25 Nov 21
- Moves
- 1990
29 Nov 21
@Rajk999
<<Faith is really nothing. Its just a professed belief and is dead being alone. It is only when faith is put into action then it becomes living faith which leads to eternal life.>>
Faith is really nothing? Are you serious? How do you explain this?
“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
(Hebrews 11:6)
Hebrews chapter 11 is known as “Heroes of the Faith” not “Heroes of Good Works.”
29 Nov 21
@pb1022 saidVery easy to explain.... these faithful had good works as well. Faith alone is dead aka NOTHING, WORTHLESS. Only if faith has works the it becomes something.
@Rajk999
<<Faith is really nothing. Its just a professed belief and is dead being alone. It is only when faith is put into action then it becomes living faith which leads to eternal life.>>
Faith is really nothing? Are you serious? How do you explain this?
“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he ...[text shortened]...
(Hebrews 11:6)
Hebrews chapter 11 is known as “Heroes of the Faith” not “Heroes of Good Works.”
Works alone is still something and there are examples of that.
As stated already perfection is faith + works.
29 Nov 21
@rajk999 saidFaith causes us to repent; putting our faith in the Lord and His works for us alters our lives. If perfection in your eyes is faith + works, where do you get the idea that works alone is acceptable? There is no faith involved in that, just self-motivation; you cannot get right by doing some good works. If someone lies, they are a liar, will a few good works will not cause God to overlook their lies. Not according to scripture, which is quite clear on the matter that among others, not a single mention of good works alone making one right with God. You are either walking in the Spirit of God, or you are not; if not, works of the flesh will be the only thing that your life will produce, and nothing about that type of life can please God.
Very easy to explain.... these faithful had good works as well. Faith alone is dead aka NOTHING, WORTHLESS. Only if faith has works the it becomes something.
Works alone is still something and there are examples of that.
As stated already perfection is faith + works.
Revelation 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
@kellyjay saidWhat a load of church baloney. Where in the bible has this expression you keep using over and over ... making one right with God.
Faith causes us to repent; putting our faith in the Lord and His works for us alters our lives. If perfection in your eyes is faith + works, where do you get the idea that works alone is acceptable? There is no faith involved in that, just self-motivation; you cannot get right by doing some good works. If someone lies, they are a liar, will a few good works will not cause Go ...[text shortened]... iars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
Your church is far from Christ, and the Gospel of Christ is alien to you. You preach a corrupted version of the gospel of Paul which emphasises mouth worship and dead faith. All that Paul said about keeping the commandments, and righteousness and good works, you have discarded. Paul said charity / brotherly love is GREATER THAN FAITH ... Your professed faith that you boast about comes in second.
Jesus said ... He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. (John 14:21 KJV) ... These are the ones right with God [to use your expression] - Keepers of the commandments and doers of the law get eternal life. Talkers and those professing dead faith are cast out.
What you church jokers have done is to totally screw up what Paul said about saved by grace and the significance of the death and resurrection of Christ .. You have made a mess of Pauls teachings.
29 Nov 21
@rajk999 saidWhat Jesus said and what you are proclaiming are two different things.
What a load of church baloney. Where in the bible has this expression you keep using over and over ... making one right with God.
Your church is far from Christ, and the Gospel of Christ is alien to you. You preach a corrupted version of the gospel of Paul which emphasises mouth worship and dead faith. All that Paul said about keeping the commandments, and right ...[text shortened]... gnificance of the death and resurrection of Christ .. [/i] You have made a mess of Pauls teachings.
John 5
Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
Good works are going to be done, they are done by almost anyone at one time or another, but if Jesus isn't first, works will not save you.
@kellyjay saidBaloney galore. Yet another church line that is not in the bible - ... Good works are going to be done .. Nobody said that in the bible.
What Jesus said and what you are proclaiming are two different things.
John 5
Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
Good works are going to be done, they are done by almost anyone at one time or another, but if Jesus isn't first, works will not save you.
John 5 ? You cannot even quote the verse so that people can check on it. You are a sloppy lazy poster.
And there you have yet another misunderstand passage which you failed to read in its entirety. Cherry picking leads to false doctrines. In all cases, when the time comes for judgment and eternal life, there is nothing about who had faith and who did not. The judgment is always based on a mans works, not just those who profess faith BUT ALL MEN WILL BE JUDGED BY THEIR WORKS. To Honor God means to OBEY the commandments.. God is not honoured by mouth worship.
In the very same John 5 Jesus said
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (John 5:28-29 KJV)
ALL not the faithful Christians ... ALL
The judgment criteria ,,, WORKS
GOOD WORKS - LIFE
EVIL - DAMNATION
[Note how scripture should to be quoted]
There are dozens such passages all over the teachings of Christ and the Apostles.