@rajk999 saidThe Bible says a lot of things, many of which you reject because, as you put it doesn't go to the gospel of Christ. So this goes right to the heart of what we have been talking about for a long time now. Are good works all that God requires when someone doesn't have Jesus because they reject Him, ignore Him, or for some other reason they don't have Him in their lives?
The bible is answering the question even though it is a stupid question.
The whole Bible has answers that do not contradict itself; no portions of the Bible disagree with other portions in context. Answer the question, is God going to accept a person without Jesus, is all He requires are good works, Jesus isn't required in their lives?
@kellyjay saidYou are a stupid man, and this is my final answer. Jesus stated in crystal clear language that he saves, accepts and will give eternal life in the kingdom of God to these people, because these did not deny him.:
The Bible says a lot of things, many of which you reject because, as you put it doesn't go to the gospel of Christ. So this goes right to the heart of what we have been talking about for a long time now. Are good works all that God requires when someone doesn't have Jesus because they reject Him, ignore Him, or for some other reason they don't have Him in their lives?
The ...[text shortened]... cept a person without Jesus, is all He requires are good works, Jesus isn't required in their lives?
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. (Matthew 25:34-36 KJV)
And these people will be destroyed, again the reasons for their condemnation is stated as well, they ignored Him :
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. (Matthew 25:41-43 KJV)
I know your church does not preach the Gospel of Christ, and that is for your to deal with. No more answers from me.
- Joined
- 25 Nov 21
- Moves
- 1990
@rajk999 saidYou can’t answer the questions.
Well, the questions were stupid and childish to be honest. If there is a gaping hole in what I believe and I quote Jesus Christ for you then you are another one who ... denies Christ, ignores Christ, has nothing to do with Christ ..
The doctrine of Christ is pretty simple. Your questions are designed to ridicule the Gospel of Christ. So we will part company on that matter.
Previously you ignored questions you couldn’t answer.
Now you say they’re stupid and childish.
But you’re still not answering them.
I’ve asked you a few times now to explain John 6:40 but you refuse. These are Jesus’ own words:
“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
(John 6:40)
- Joined
- 25 Nov 21
- Moves
- 1990
@kellyjay saidOn the first page of the Is Atheism Dead? thread, rajk999 suggested atheists will be in the Kingdom of Heaven so I think that answers your question.
The Bible says a lot of things, many of which you reject because, as you put it doesn't go to the gospel of Christ. So this goes right to the heart of what we have been talking about for a long time now. Are good works all that God requires when someone doesn't have Jesus because they reject Him, ignore Him, or for some other reason they don't have Him in their lives?
The ...[text shortened]... cept a person without Jesus, is all He requires are good works, Jesus isn't required in their lives?
rajk999 doesn’t believe in Jesus Christ, doesn’t think he needs Jesus Christ. All he needs are his good works. How many? Jesus will judge.
This is the Bible, according to rajk999:
Do good works. Jesus will judge.
@pb1022 saidYou cannot bombard people with dozens of questions over and over and expect answers. Do I do that to you? Try to post in a more mature level-headed manner and people will respect you.
I’ve asked you a few times now to explain John 6:40 but you refuse. These are Jesus’ own words:
“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
(John 6:40)
Anyway here it is :
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:40 KJV)
Professing that you believe is not sufficient and Jesus made this point clearly by saying it is those who keep the commandments will be given eternal life
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. ....
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, ......
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, .... (Matthew 7:21-27 KJV)
Professing Lord Lord, must be followed with the keeping of the commandments. So your claim that those who believe will be given eternal life does not tell the whole story.
@pb1022 saidDo you understand what Paul said here:
On the first page of the Is Atheism Dead? thread, rajk999 suggested atheists will be in the Kingdom of Heaven so I think that answers your question.
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another) (Romans 2:13-15 KJV)
Allow me to translate and summarise
- Doers are justified before God
- Not everybody knows about God or Christ or have the Law of Moses or the Law of Christ
- But even Gentiles with no law can still keep the law becuse God has written the law into the hearts of all people and their conscience is their guide to what is good and evil.
- Jesus will judge all people, and that includes atheists
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
@pb1022 saidThankyou. Thank the Lord.
These are excellent verses that illustrate your point.
@rajk999 saidI have zero problems acknowledging there were those who professed to know Jesus on both His left and right at the same time. Which again does not answer my question when you respond; none of them are part of my question. I'm not talking about those that profess Christ, and Jesus says He doesn't know them; that group of people was being cast out for another reason.
You are a stupid man, and this is my final answer. Jesus stated in crystal clear language that he saves, accepts and will give eternal life in the kingdom of God to these people, because these did not deny him.:
[i]Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Fo ...[text shortened]... oes not preach the Gospel of Christ, and that is for your to deal with. No more answers from me.
THE ONLY ONES I'M ASKING ABOUT, never professed Him, denied Him in the life, had no time for Him. Do their good works alone without Jesus make them acceptable to God?
@kellyjay saidI answered that already.
I have zero problems acknowledging there were those who professed to know Jesus on both His left and right at the same time. Which again does not answer my question when you respond; none of them are part of my question. I'm not talking about those that profess Christ, and Jesus says He doesn't know them; that group of people was being cast out for another reason.
THE ONL ...[text shortened]... the life, had no time for Him. Do their good works alone without Jesus make them acceptable to God?
@kellyjay saidYou ask stupid questions and your understanding of what denying Christ is about is nonsense. You are brainwashed by your church doctrine into thinking that people going to church are the ones accepting Christ and those who do not are denying Christ.
No, you did not, you gave answers none of which answered the questions being asked.
People who disobey the commandments are the ones who are denying Christ, ignoring Christ etc.
People preaching doctrines contrary to Christ, are denying Christ. You are a good example of someone who is denying Christ. Your words accept Christ but your heart is not with Christ. If it were with Christ then you would accept the teachings and commandments of Christ and clearly you do not. Your faith is in vain.
This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Matthew 15:8-9 KJV)
- Joined
- 25 Nov 21
- Moves
- 1990
@Rajk999
<<Professing that you believe is not sufficient and Jesus made this point clearly by saying it is those who keep the commandments will be given eternal life >>
For whatever reason, you think “professing that you believe” and actually believing are synonyms, and they’re not.
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
(John 3:16)
“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”
(Romans 10:9)
I can say, on a bright, cloudless day, “I believe it’s going to rain 30 seconds.”
I can say that, but do I really believe it?
Professing to believe is not the same as actually believing something.
@pb1022 saidWell in that case the word 'believing' means more than one thing, professing belief and obeying the commandments. So there will be two categories of believers :
@Rajk999
<<Professing that you believe is not sufficient and Jesus made this point clearly by saying it is those who keep the commandments will be given eternal life >>
For whatever reason, you think “professing that you believe” and actually believing are synonyms, and they’re not.
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believet ...[text shortened]... ut do I really believe it?
Professing to believe is not the same as actually believing something.
1. Those who profess belief as Jesus called them the Lord Lord type, but who do not obey the commandments, called the goats in Matt 25, the foolish man in Matt 7 and chaff etc and many other names. These are cast out of the Kingdom of God
2. Those who actually follow and keep the commandments, the sheep, the wise man, the good fruit. These get eternal life.
- Joined
- 25 Nov 21
- Moves
- 1990
@Rajk999
<<Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. ....
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, ......
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, .... (Matthew 7:21-27 KJV)>>
You omitted parts of that passage that contradict your belief.
You specifically omitted part of verse 22. Here is verse 22 in its entirety:
“22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?”
Followed by verse 23:
“23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
So the people that Jesus says should depart from him are those who, in his name, had prophesied, cast out devils and “done many wonderful works.”
Sounds like works, even wonderful works, don’t lead to salvation.
And what of verse 21?
“21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”
What is the will of the Father in Heaven?
Jesus answers that in John 6:40:
“40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
<<Professing Lord Lord, must be followed with the keeping of the commandments.>>
Again, no one is saying keeping of the commandments isn’t important.
But no one, not even Paul the Apostle, who had an encounter with the Resurrected Christ, could live a perfect Law keeping life.
He says as much in Romans 7.
And the Apostle Peter denied knowing Jesus after telling Him he would follow Him to His death.
Man’s only hope in obeying the commandments *most of the time* is through the power of God’s indwelt Holy Spirit, which new believers receive when they accept and believe in Jesus Christ and in His Resurrection a la John 3:16 and Romans 10:9.
<<So your claim that those who believe will be given eternal life does not tell the whole story.>>
Again, professing to believe and actually believing are two different things.
Good works and keeping the commandments are important, but they’re evidence of salvation (not a requirement of it) and they’re evidence of God’s indwelt Holy Spirit changing someone’s heart.
@pb1022 saidWhy is your writing so jumbled and hard to read. Do my posts look like that total mess ?
@Rajk999
<<Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. ....
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, ......
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish ma ...[text shortened]... not a requirement of it) and they’re evidence of God’s indwelt Holy Spirit changing someone’s heart.
I wont even bother reading that.