26 Nov 21
@pb1022 saidHere is the issue.
More judging and condemning.
Read Matthew chapter 23 for what Jesus said about hypocritical condemners. You’re a hypocritical condemner because you’re not perfectly keeping the Law (because no one can!) and you’re condemning other people on here.
Judgment and condemnation of sinners was NOT what Jesus was about. He embraced sinners. He healed sinners. He loved sinners, a ...[text shortened]... nd the purpose of the Law was to show man his need for a Saviour - that’s straight out of Galatians.
Are you teaching the doctrine of Christ. I asked you before if you are doing that then please provide a reference for your claim that nobody can do good works, nobody can be righteous, nobody can keep the law..... a reference from Jesus Christ is what Im asking for. ... THERE IS NONE.
Jesus said no such thing.
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26 Nov 21
@rajk999 saidI never said there were Christians during Jesus Christ’s earthly ministry. I asked how He was with sinners. And the fact is, He embraced, healed and loved sinners. He was not judgmental and condemning at all. He was only like that toward the legalistic Pharisees who had no compassion or mercy toward sinners. That’s what you seem like that - constant judging and condemning. Jesus wasn’t like that at all. You should re-read the Gospels.
Jesus was judgemental with false prophets, false teachers and hypocrites. There were no Christians in the time of Christ.
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26 Nov 21
@rajk999 saidNobody can keep the Law. At least not perfectly. Not even Jesus Christ’s disciples could. That was my point in asking you that question. You’re setting an impossibly high bar and demanding that people adhere to that impossible standard that you yourself cannot meet. That was my point.
Again the issue is about the teachings of Christ and what YOU PREACH.
What you do, What I do, What the President of the US does, is nobody's business here. We dont care
Got that?
Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law and the Prophets and salvation is found in Him and Him alone. Not Law keeping. No one can keep the Law to God’s standard, nor were they expected to. The Law’s purpose was to show man his need for a Saviour. Read Galatians!
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26 Nov 21
@rajk999 saidI never said any of that.
Here is the issue.
Are you teaching the doctrine of Christ. I asked you before if you are doing that then please provide a reference for your claim that nobody can do good works, nobody can be righteous, nobody can keep the law..... a reference from Jesus Christ is what Im asking for. ... THERE IS NONE.
Jesus said no such thing.
I said the focus should not be on Law keeping through willpower and self-effort. The Gospel of Grace, the gift of no condemnation and the indwelling of God’s Holy Spirit is what enables people to no longer be slaves to sin.
That’s why communion with God and Jesus’ instruction to “seek ye first the Kingdom of God” are so important. Man tried to keep the Law through self-effort and willpower for thousands of years. He can’t do it - not to God’s standard. He needs a Saviour, and Jesus Christ is that Saviour.
26 Nov 21
@pb1022 saidReferences... quote what Jesus said.
I never said any of that.
I said the focus should not be on Law keeping through willpower and self-effort. The Gospel of Grace, the gift of no condemnation and the indwelling of God’s Holy Spirit is what enables people to no longer be slaves to sin.
That’s why communion with God and Jesus’ instruction to “seek ye first the Kingdom of God” are so important. Man tried to k ...[text shortened]... years. He can’t do it - not to God’s standard. He needs a Saviour, and Jesus Christ is that Saviour.
Nobody cares what you have to say
26 Nov 21
@pb1022 saidReferences... quote what Jesus said.
I never said any of that.
I said the focus should not be on Law keeping through willpower and self-effort. The Gospel of Grace, the gift of no condemnation and the indwelling of God’s Holy Spirit is what enables people to no longer be slaves to sin.
That’s why communion with God and Jesus’ instruction to “seek ye first the Kingdom of God” are so important. Man tried to k ...[text shortened]... years. He can’t do it - not to God’s standard. He needs a Saviour, and Jesus Christ is that Saviour.
Nobody cares what you have to say
27 Nov 21
@sonship saidHere we have another church Christian that is a abject failure.
@Rajk999
Many of us care. You don't care. You don't care. You don't care.
Here is the question :
Where did Jesus preach that nobody can keep the commandments...
It aint there?
Ok, now show me where Paul preached that nobody can keep the commandments ..
Show me where Peter preached that nobody can keep the commandments ..
Show me where James preached that nobody can keep the commandments ..
Show me where John preached that nobody can keep the commandments ..
It is NOT there. That is not a correct doctrine.
That is your church doctrine. And it is false.
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27 Nov 21
@rajk999 saidExplain these verses:
Here we have another church Christian that is a abject failure.
Here is the question :
Where did Jesus preach that nobody can keep the commandments...
It aint there?
Ok, now show me where Paul preached that nobody can keep the commandments ..
Show me where Peter preached that nobody can keep the commandments ..
Show me where James preached that nobody can keep the c ...[text shortened]...
It is NOT there. That is not a correct doctrine.
That is your church doctrine. And it is false.
“For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.”
(Romans 6:14)
“Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.”
(Galatians 3:24-26)
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”
(Galatians 3:10-14)
“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”
(Galatians 2:16)
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
(Ephesians 2:8-9)
“O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?”
(Galatians 3:1-3)
“For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”
(2 Corinthians 5:21)
Want me to list more?
When you say “keep the commandments” are you talking about keeping them to 100% perfection without fail?
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Pointing out verses to Rajk999 is fruitless.
Try if you wish.
"A factious man, after a first and second admonition, refuse." (Titus 3:10)
Rajk999 has received hundreds of admonitions with much patience.
Only certain "red letters" of the synoptic gospels make up his version of the New
Testament. He only regards anything outside of these "red letter" quotations as important if he thinks they support his opinion about the "red letters."
And if you show that even in some of the "red letters" he has no case, it only results in vitriolic anathemas, calling of names, and his longing to pronounce damnation on you on the spot.
Even if I approach the matter of giving a reason for the hope that is within me, undogmatically, it makes no difference. After a decade of debating its proved meaningless to show Rajk999 anything.
Perhaps some others reading along may be rendered some help. He won't. You're just fueling him to be more blind, entrenched in his version of his constricted "red letter" version of his "another Jesus".
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27 Nov 21
@sonship saidVery sorry to hear that and it’s sad. Such a legalistic, compassionless mindset is the antithesis of what Jesus was about and is much more in line with the Pharisees.
Pointing out verses to Rajk999 is fruitless.
Try if you wish.
"A factious man, after a first and second admonition, refuse." (Titus 3:10)
Rajk999 has received hundreds of admonitions with much patience.
Only certain "red letters" of the synoptic gospels make up his version of the New
Testament. He only regards anything outside of th ...[text shortened]... nd, entrenched in his version of his constricted "red letter" version of his "another Jesus".
I asked rajk999 how he would have responded to the woman caught in the act of adultery in John 8 and he declined to answer. I suspect that is because he would have responded much differently than Jesus responded.
Matthew 23 is an enlightening chapter for how Jesus viewed the legalistic, merciless mindset. Jesus seemed angry in the Gospels only with hypocrisy - those who demand of others and who condemn others for that which they do not do themselves.
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27 Nov 21
Rajk999 believes the Apostle Paul messed up the message of Jesus.
And if you watch closely, I think he thinks the same thing of the Gospel of John.
I have yet to have any confidence that he actually believes in the resurrection of Jesus physically, and not Jehovah Witness (spirit creature) style.
The avoidance of personal testimony and personal witness is a cloak to conceal he has no experience of being a lover and follower of the risen Lord Jesus.
I have never heard him confess that personally Jesus is his Lord.
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27 Nov 21
@sonship saidThat’s interesting. Has he identified what the commandments of Jesus are? I asked him but he didn’t answer.
Rajk999 believes the Apostle Paul messed up the message of Jesus.
And if you watch closely, I think he thinks the same thing of the Gospel of John.
I have yet to have any confidence that he actually believes in the resurrection of Jesus physically, and not Jehovah Witness (spirit creature) style.
The avoidance of personal testimony and personal witness is a cloak ...[text shortened]... wer of the risen Lord Jesus.
I have never heard him confess that personally Jesus is his Lord.
I know Jesus identified loving God with all one’s heart, mind, soul and strength and loving one’s neighbor as thyself as the two greatest commandments. And I remember these verses from the Gospel of John:
“A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.”
(John 13:34-35)
I’m also left wondering what rajk999 thinks/believes Jesus accomplished on the cross if Christians are living under the Mosaic law and expected to obey it to perfection. What then is the good news of the Gospel?
Especially since Jesus dramatically ramped up the definitions of adultery and murder to include looking on a woman with lust and being angry at someone without a cause.
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27 Nov 21
@PB1022
Maybe, one day. Love believes all things and hopes all things.
Prayer.
None of us can do without someone praying for us.
God's mercy reaches far.
It is a mercy that we believe in the Lord Jesus.