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22 Dec 19
@galveston75 saidThis could be your epitaph, or your RHP profile.
Yes. Nothing new that I haven't heard many times...
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22 Dec 19
@galveston75 saidAre you going to address all the people who replied to your OP or is KellyJay the only one you can cope with?
John 1:3,
3 "All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. What has come into existence."
Does this actually say he, Jesus, created? It says "all things came thru him" Why not say that he created all things if he did indeed create all things? But it doesn't. It is his Father Jehovah that was the master planner ...[text shortened]... the designer of it. He is used to build it but he is not the one who brought forth the design of it.
22 Dec 19
@kellyjay saidMorning Kelly
The Son is not equal with the Father, He is equal in that they are both God along with the Holy Spirit, but the Father is greater. In my family I have a son, we are both human beings, but I have the greater authority in our family, my son is no less, no more a human being than I am. God the Father is God, Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit is God, and none of them is more or less ...[text shortened]... in God's being there is a perfect love that is totally beyond us, but out of this love God created.
That’s the best stab I’ve come across at squaring the Trinity circle. When I think of “when you see me you see the Father” I think of the saying “a chip off the old block”.
The problem with this subject is that you can go around in circles.
I like Paul's words ! Cor 8:6 : “yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist."
The basic problem that Christianity has with its teachings is that the Roman Church got its hands on The Faith and impregnated it with their pagan ideas Christmas; Easter etc. and the trinity was part of that coming down from Babylon.
I find it interesting that there is no inference of a Trinity in the Old Testament and yet we have this mission to prove one in the NT. If there was a Trinity, as you have suggested, don't you think we would have been told that in plain English?
22 Dec 19
@divegeester saidNo because i don't have a Trinitarian belief and have never argued in support of it.
So in your trinitarian belief the three are NOT co-equal?
There are better things that energies could be directed at. How about "Is there a point at which it is OK for a Christian to Kill?" or "If The Devil Rules the World (1John 5:9) How does he do it?"
Spurs away today, could be a tough one. I predict another 0-3 drubbing.
22 Dec 19
@medullah saidIt is deeper than that, if you don't have the Son, you don't have the Father they are One! And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth, this is God becoming a man. So right now there is a man sitting at the right hand of the Father making intercession for us, Jesus Christ. They are not the same person with different titles, they have acted in concert to accomplish God's goals doing a variety of different things and continue to act that way.
Morning Kelly
That’s the best stab I’ve come across at squaring the Trinity circle. When I think of “when you see me you see the Father” I think of the saying “a chip off the old block”.
The problem with this subject is that you can go around in circles.
I like Paul's words ! Cor 8:6 : “yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for w ...[text shortened]... was a Trinity, as you have suggested, don't you think we would have been told that in plain English?
John 5:21-23 English Standard Version (ESV)
For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.
The word Trinity isn't in either Testament Old or New, the doctrine is found in both. Look up what the word "One" means in this text, it isn't a numerical value.
Deuteronomy 6:4 English Standard Version (ESV)
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
22 Dec 19
@medullah saidThe man is confused. he said this The Son is not equal with the Father, He is equal in that they are both God. ... which is utter nonsense.
Sorry Kelly I misunderstood.
So it amounts to them being on the same football team ? (three-a-side)
Believers of the Trinity cannot explain what they believe.
22 Dec 19
@medullah saidThe thing is all of our allegories when applied to God fall short. He is apart from His creation, unlike everything not God, we and everything else are dependent upon Him for our very being. God alone is without cause.
Sorry Kelly I misunderstood.
So it amounts to them being on the same football team ? (three-a-side)
22 Dec 19
@kellyjay saidYep .. fall back on the 'mysterious' claim when you believe nonsense and cannlt explain the nonsense. This is why I just stick to what Jesus preached clearly and ignore church doctrines which is all hogwash.
The thing is all of our allegories when applied to God fall short. He is apart from His creation, unlike everything not God, we and everything else are dependent upon Him for our very being. God alone is without cause.
Jesus stated clearly who he was.
Jesus stated clearly who God was
Jesus stated clearly what is required for eternal life
You got all those things wrong because you listen to the church and not to Christ.
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22 Dec 19
4 edits
I think that you will find ( I am pretty sure ) that in most cases where you hear complaints about the three-oneness of God, you will ALSO have an incomplete Christology. The Deity of Christ is either non-existent, temporary or not quite eternally complete.
Where there is complaining about the trinity, I think I have noticed, there is almost invariably an incomplete belief about the deity of Christ. This is certainly the case with Arians who want to make Jesus not God incarnate but Michael the archangel. But I think I notice it also wth Modalistic Unitarians or Oneness theologians who don't see Christ as God incarnated forever.
Judaism, Jehovah Witnesses, Unitarians, Modalistic, and Oneness Pentecostals and all disbelieve the trinity seem simultaneously to (outright reject) or not fully accept the incarnation of God as the man Jesus Christ. Or they reject that He is truly God-man forever.
Unless I get corrected on that, that seems to be what I have discovered from this Forum. No one who rejects the trinity has a healthy and complete Christology, it appears to me.