@divegeester saidJesus and his disciples are one. Clearly they are not equal.
From my first post in this thread:
“I and the Father are one”
“When you have seen me, you have seen the Father”
Oneness does not and can not mean they are one and the same entity.
Next, a man representing his company can claim that if you negotiate with him it is like negotiating with his boss. He represents the company. Therefore seeing Jesus is tantamount to seeing God in the sense that everything Jesus says is from God. There is no difference.
Both those arguments you make are lame.
Jesus and God are two separate and distinct entities, with different minds, but still with oneness, and with different functions.
21 Dec 19
@medullah saidChristianity is adding to the bible.
Hi Kelly
I'm very much aware of the history of it, and if you had a definition within the bible that aligned with the Athanasian Creed it would be over, game set and match. But there isn't one.
I understand it, and it brings me back to what's more important; that Jesus died and provision was made under Levital Law for him to become our ransomer and redeemer holding out ...[text shortened]... with his heavenly Father.
But we can agree to disagree nicely, and find some other common ground?
21 Dec 19
@galveston75 saidHow can JW's believe that Jesus created us but he is not our God?
Just watching the forums here and have seen a few comments on the trinity or ones who believe it lately.
It amazes me they express their understanding or version of it and how seemingly without really hearing what they are saying, it in fact actually hurts in their attempt to convince others of it.
For example this was said: "Christ was totally satisfied in His Fat ...[text shortened]... all knowing, all powerful. All equal!!!
So again why did Jesus need his Father, if Jesus is God?
Makes no sense whatsoever.
22 Dec 19
@whodey saidWhat JW has ever said that Jesus created humans? I certainly haven't. What does the bible say????? Re read it if you need to and grasp what exactly is being said there.
How can JW's believe that Jesus created us but he is not our God?
Makes no sense whatsoever.
This is one of the beginning scriptures in the Bible that speaks of Jesus. That was not his name then but that is another point.
But if one who is seriously wanting to ever get a clear and truthful understanding of who Jesus is, one has see and understand the influence that the Babylonian trinity has had on Christian religions. And one has to realize the influence Satan has had on most all religion.
Again the most glaring is that none of God's people from the first true worshipers of Jehovah to the last of all of Jesus disciples never eve mentioned suggested or believed in anything like the trinity. But guess who did? Many of the pagonistic nations around them
If one could see that and put the pieces together, the trinity would finally be exposed to all for what it is...
22 Dec 19
@kellyjay saidYes. Nothing new that I haven't heard many times... And yes the doctrine of the trinity has many explanations and angles to it. I have yet to ever hear two that are alike and I would think that shows there is a problem with it.
Read it, does that answer my question to you? In order to disagree about something we at least have to define what it is we are disagreeing on. Right now what is being claimed is the doctrine of the Trinity isn't the one I believe. Did you watch that little speech?
Anyone can find videos on the supposed experts on the trinity but when they really get cornered, it gets very frustrating for them not only with their opinions but when they can't even agree with others that say it's a bible belief.
Most so called experts don't even make the connection of Babylons/ Egypt's / and most of Christianity and the trinity and how it's all the same.
@divegeester saidYeah I get it.
From my first post in this thread:
“I and the Father are one”
“When you have seen me, you have seen the Father”
Just after you asked me if i believed that moon was hollow (why?)
and that the earth was flat (why?)
and if I beleived in vaccination (why?)
you wanted to lecture me on my need to read John.
So here is a leaf out of your own book
John 14:28 "The father is greater than I"
22 Dec 19
@galveston75 saidIt is a simple doctrine, it is shared by many. The Trinity has many explanations to it to those that don’t grasp it, but it isn’t that difficult to understand. If you watched the talk, please explain what errors you found in it, be specific because right now I don’t think we are talking about the same thing, I don’t believe your views on the Trinity line up with actual doctrine.
Yes. Nothing new that I haven't heard many times... And yes the doctrine of the trinity has many explanations and angles to it. I have yet to ever hear two that are alike and I would think that shows there is a problem with it.
Anyone can find videos on the supposed experts on the trinity but when they really get cornered, it gets very frustrating for them not only with ...[text shortened]... onnection of Babylons/ Egypt's / and most of Christianity and the trinity and how it's all the same.
22 Dec 19
John 1:3,
3 "All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. What has come into existence."
Does this actually say he, Jesus, created? It says "all things came thru him" Why not say that he created all things if he did indeed create all things? But it doesn't. It is his Father Jehovah that was the master planner and designer of all things from the universe to the smallest thing imaginable. Jesus himself said "ALL things came from " Jehovah" and that he, Jesus, did not and has "never done anything of his own will but only that of his Father".
Jesus was the "first of all creation" just as the bible clearly says. His Father Jehovah became "very found of him" just as the bible says. Who did the Father become fond of, himself? No, his son.
And because of this special love as would be expected of a Father with his first born, he "Jesus" was honored to be beside his Father and was indeed a very active part of his Fathers creative plans. He became the master worker for his father, and no doubt was very busy in assisting his Father in building all that we see in every direction.
So yes Jesus was used by his father just as a General contractor is over the ground up construction of some office building, he is not the designer of it. He is used to build it but he is not the one who brought forth the design of it.
22 Dec 19
@medullah saidThe Son is not equal with the Father, He is equal in that they are both God along with the Holy Spirit, but the Father is greater. In my family I have a son, we are both human beings, but I have the greater authority in our family, my son is no less, no more a human being than I am. God the Father is God, Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit is God, and none of them is more or less God than the other, but the Father has the greater position and authority, that said they are still in complete harmony with each other too, so when Jesus said when you see me you see the Father that is because He is the exact representation of the Father, they are in complete harmony. God is one!
Hi Kelly
I'm very much aware of the history of it, and if you had a definition within the bible that aligned with the Athanasian Creed it would be over, game set and match. But there isn't one.
I understand it, and it brings me back to what's more important; that Jesus died and provision was made under Levital Law for him to become our ransomer and redeemer holding out ...[text shortened]... with his heavenly Father.
But we can agree to disagree nicely, and find some other common ground?
So there was never a time the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were not in complete harmony, there was never a time where the Father didn't love the Son and Holy Spirit and they Him and each other. God is love, that is quite different than saying God loves. We can say God is love, because in God's being there is a perfect love that is totally beyond us, but out of this love God created.
22 Dec 19
@kellyjay saidEverything about the trinity is wrong. Not one thread of the truthfulness of the Bible is in it,. Sorry...
It is a simple doctrine, it is shared by many. The Trinity has many explanations to it to those that don’t grasp it, but it isn’t that difficult to understand. If you watched the talk, please explain what errors you found in it, be specific because right now I don’t think we are talking about the same thing, I don’t believe your views on the Trinity line up with actual doctrine.
Why do you refuse to acknowledge the Babylon trinity as being the blueprint of your trinity? There is absolutely no difference in the two other then a few moderations or versions that keep popping up to try to make it make sense.
But with so many refusing to use God's name, Jehovah, it helps a little to confuse who Jesus really is.
22 Dec 19
@galveston75 saidI asked you to be specific, is that possible?
Everything about the trinity is wrong. Not one thread of the truthfulness of the Bible is in it,. Sorry...
Why do you refuse to acknowledge the Babylon trinity as being the blueprint of your trinity? There is absolutely no difference in the two other then a few moderations or versions that keep popping up to try to make it make sense.
But with so many refusing to use God's name, Jehovah, it helps a little to confuse who Jesus really is.
If you cannot be specific I don't think you have an argument, only a distaste for something you don't like or understand.
22 Dec 19
@kellyjay saidOh, why did you not just say that. It makes perfect sense. Jesus is equal to God but he is not equal to God. I now understand.
The Son is not equal with the Father, He is equal in that they are both God along with the Holy Spirit, but the Father is greater. In my family I have a son, we are both human beings, but I have the greater authority in our family, my son is no less, no more a human being than I am. God the Father is God, Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit is God, and none of them is more or less ...[text shortened]... in God's being there is a perfect love that is totally beyond us, but out of this love God created.
