Comments on the trinity by ones who believe in the trinity....

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I am genuinely mystified that anybody could read/study the OT and NT and come away thinking they were discussing the same God. Sure, the NT follows the same threads, but the jealous and vindictive God has been given a severe makeover.

It's akin to viewing the lightsaber fights of the original Star Wars films and their prequels and declaring that the nature and quality of the fights are the same. They're not.

We started this conversation before, and you said this and refused or ignored everything I said. I will start by saying there is only one God, He has revealed Himself through revelation, and He has been consistent, He is Good, we are not and that has been the issue with us all along. He is Just, we are not and that has been an issue with us all along. The list goes on, and it isn't that He requires a makeover; we are the ones that need that and He provided it in Christ. The beginning of scripture shows His creation as being very good, our disobedience the fall, and from there, we have killed each other and so on. His long-suffering is the only thing that has kept us from being destroyed for the evil we did, are doing, and continue to do. The Bible as a whole shows God’s continued long-suffering and displays the story of God's dealing with us from Genesis to Revelation that has had Him getting us ready for Christ to come into the world to redeem us.

@galveston75 said
Does a person have to believe and accept this trinity doctrine to be a Christian?

Can you answer my question, what specifically is it is you disagree with in either the link you said you watched, or the things that have been said so far? The salvation of any of us is going to be between us and God through Jesus Christ, while I'm sure that each of us are going to have wrong ideas about God and other things in this life, the one thing I do believe it is a personal thing that all of us have to do, go to Jesus Christ for forgiveness and make Him Lord of our lives. Salvation isn't a check list where if we have to just accept somethings to be true and others not, it is Jesus Christ in us, the Spirit of God in us.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!

John 16:13
When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

Romans 5:4-6 English Standard Version (ESV)
and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.

Romans 8:9
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

@sonship said
I have another theory, another suspicion. Yet I could be wrong. I am willing to be corrected if so.

But I think there is correlation between those who do not believe in the Trinity with not appreciating exactly WHO it was who died upon that cross. And those who have an incomplete realization of WHO it was who died upon that cross likewise are ones to protest first about et ...[text shortened]... believing that in Christ God went as far as it was possible for Him to go to save us from our sins.

You are confusing “correlation” with coincidence and conflating the outcome of this misnomer with your personal prejudices and partisan biases.

@galveston75 said
Does a person have to believe and accept this trinity doctrine to be a Christian?

Absolutely not.

Although sonship has recently (and finally) stated that he accepts his church’s doctrine that salvation is dependent on it.

@kellyjay said
We started this conversation before, and you said this and refused or ignored everything I said.

Are you castigating another poster for ignoring you...really!?

@kellyjay said
Can you answer my question

Are you finding it rude because another poster is ignoring your question...really!?

@galveston75 said
Does a person have to believe and accept this trinity doctrine to be a Christian?

Not in my book.

I don't, and would say that am one, even if a regularly failing one. To me the importance is to understand what Jesus death is all about and try and do what is right, loving your fellow human etc.

I wonder who is the most acceptable to God? The one who believes in the trinity and is bombing the crap out of innocent people that can be written off as colateral damage; or the man who doesn't beleive in the trinity but walks in peace.

If you don't have love the other stuff is lost.

@rajk999 said
Are the same guy that believes that the universe is 6000 yrs old?
Then no. I aint showing you nothing. You are a lost cause.

Nobody is a lost cause.

The Bible doesn't say that the universe is 6000 years old. I understand where people get this from, but they need to read the creation account again .

1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

There is no time limit expressed in the creation of the universe or earth itself. It is an assumption that is not supported by the dating metheds that we have at our disposal.

@medullah said
Nobody is a lost cause.

The Bible doesn't say that the universe is 6000 years old. I understand where people get this from, but they need to read the creation account again .

1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

T ...[text shortened]... tself. It is an assumption that is not supported by the dating metheds that we have at our disposal.

I agree, we don't know and it clearly doesn't say.

@divegeester

Although sonship has recently (and finally) stated that he accepts his church’s doctrine that salvation is dependent on it.

Produce the quote in which I ever in the last decade wrote that I "finally" disagreed OR changed my view on these two statements.

I have emphasized the word "doctrine" doesn't appear. I have emphasized that it speaks of "a unique Triune God" NOT the DOCTRINE of the trinity or the DOCTRINE of the Triune God. [My bolding below]

In order to be saved, one must have a living faith in the Person and work of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Every genuinely saved one has what the Bible calls the “common faith” (Titus 1:4), which includes what we must believe in order to be saved: we must believe that the Bible is the complete divine revelation wholly inspired by God; that there is a unique Triune God, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit; that Jesus Christ is the Son of God incarnated to be a man; that Christ died on the cross for our sins, shedding His blood for our redemption; that on the third day He was bodily raised from the dead; that He has been exalted to the right hand of God and made the Lord of all; and that He is coming again for His own and to set up His kingdom on earth.

Produce something I wrote which necessitated me reversing any opinion I had about this specific statement. (Not your words. THIS statement).

Produce also anything I ever wrote which required me to reverse anything I expressed about this paragraph.

In order to be saved, one must have a living contact with Jesus Christ. Therefore, in bringing unbelievers to salvation, we emphasize prayer and calling on the name of the Lord. According to Romans 10:9 and 10, if a man is to be saved, he must believe in his heart and confess with his mouth.

If you cannot produce something clearly demonstrating any CHANGE of opinion about the above two paragraphs, I count you as exaggerating or purposely dishonest.

@kellyjay said
We started this conversation before, and you said this and refused or ignored everything I said.

Yep I remember. You put your hands over your ears and went "la la la."

@kellyjay said
I think anyone who can read the Old Testament and New Testament and come away thinking there are different gods in the Bible does not grasp Biblical basics, let alone the more profound things of Scripture.

This really is a silly position to take. If I was an ignorant atheist who had never picked up or studied the Bible then you might have a point. However, I'm not and I have.

Let's take it as a given that we both understand Biblical basics and have you deal with my observations as something considered and reasoned. Or are you simply too insecure in your beliefs to do that?!

@sonship said
@divegeester
Produce the quote in which I ever in the last decade wrote that I "finally" disagreed OR changed my view on these two statements.

You’re such a doctrinal coward it sickens me, honestly. You either agree with your own church’s beliefs or you don’t.

@divegeester

You are confusing “correlation” with coincidence and conflating the outcome of this misnomer with your personal prejudices and partisan biases.

My experience on this Forum has been confirming to what I wrote. I can think of an exception with one person.

Problems with the Trinity ----> Problems with Person of Christ -----> Problems with eternal punishment.

That is my present observation of people on this Forum.
The correlation seems consistent. YOU certainly fit the described expectation.

I can think of some articles by evangelicals which take issue with details of that eternal punishment.

@divegeester

You’re such a doctrinal coward it sickens me, honestly. You either agree with your own church’s beliefs or you don’t.

Produce the evidence of CHANGE in attitude towards the paragraphs.
Hiding behind ad homs does nothing.

I don't think you can back up your "FINALLY" ... I changed my essential attitude about that pamphlet.