- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29756
22 Dec 19
@sonship saidPersonally I think anyone who accepts the trinity (an over-intellectualized add on applied retrospectively) does not have a healthy and complete understanding of scripture.
Unless I get corrected on that, that seems to be what I have discovered from this Forum. No one who rejects the trinity has a healthy and complete Christology, it appears to me.
22 Dec 19
@ghost-of-a-duke said😉
Personally I think anyone who accepts the trinity (an over-intellectualized add on applied retrospectively) does not have a healthy and complete understanding of scripture.
22 Dec 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI think anyone who can read the Old Testament and New Testament and come away thinking there are different gods in the Bible does not grasp Biblical basics, let alone the more profound things of Scripture.
Personally I think anyone who accepts the trinity (an over-intellectualized add on applied retrospectively) does not have a healthy and complete understanding of scripture.
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 121318
22 Dec 19
1 edit
@medullah saidThis debate is about the trinity, try to keep up.
No because i don't have a Trinitarian belief and have never argued in support of it. There are better things that energies could be directed at.
Spurs away today, could be a tough one. I predict another 0-3 drubbing.
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 121318
22 Dec 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidSalute.
Personally I think anyone who accepts the trinity (an over-intellectualized add on applied retrospectively) does not have a healthy and complete understanding of scripture.
23 Dec 19
@rajk999 saidWell quote the scripture that you claim show me my errors! You think Jesus is not God, you think the Spirit of God is not God, you think Jesus was just a guy who sinned like every other human? What is it you are disagreeing with me on, show me my errors with the scripture to back up your claims, or run off.
Yep .. fall back on the 'mysterious' claim when you believe nonsense and cannlt explain the nonsense. This is why I just stick to what Jesus preached clearly and ignore church doctrines which is all hogwash.
Jesus stated clearly who he was.
Jesus stated clearly who God was
Jesus stated clearly what is required for eternal life
You got all those things wrong because you listen to the church and not to Christ.
23 Dec 19
@kellyjay saidAre the same guy that believes that the universe is 6000 yrs old?
Well quote the scripture that you claim show me my errors! You think Jesus is not God, you think the Spirit of God is not God, you think Jesus was just a guy who sinned like every other human? What is it you are disagreeing with me on, show me my errors with the scripture to back up your claims, or run off.
Then no. I aint showing you nothing. You are a lost cause.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Personally I think anyone who accepts the trinity (an over-intellectualized add on applied retrospectively) does not have a healthy and complete understanding of scripture.
I believe that some people who do not understand the Scripture in everything still possess God. And some who have confidence that they understand do not understand as they should. For they may substitute what they feel is good understanding instead of receiving the living Person of the Lord.
They never allow the Lord to rise above them. They use their "understanding" to ever restrict God to a box of objective distant information. They are never subdued by the living God.
The New Testament spoke of those who always learn yet never come to the full knowledge of the truth. The Lord and Savior never becomes that Living One to them.
"And are always learning yet never able to come to the full knowledge of the truth. " (2 Tim. 3:7)
This is a dreadful state to remain in. It reminds me of going to sleep listening to great music. At a certain point you cease to hear anything. Before that point you may dream and hear the music in the backround. But you reach a certain point when your ears "black out". It is as if silence snaps until you regain some level of consciousness. You simply cannot hear anything though it is playing in your ears.
Some people sink into a deep sleep like this spiritually. The words of the Bible and the words of Christ come to their ears. But spiritually they cannot hear the authority of the living God speaking to them. They black out. Where they should hear the voice of God speaking they are unconscious as dead to the voice of the living Almighty.
Jesus urged, those who have ears to hear, to hear.
"He who has ears to hear, let him hear." (Matt. 11:15)
Physically they may have ears. Spiritually they hear not. A deafness, spiritually, has set in to render them unconscious.
"Having eyes, do you not see? And having ears, do you not hear? And do you not remember ?" (Mark 8:18)
Sometimes this state sets in when God DID speak expressly to one's heart. But the hearer hardened his heart to the speaking. He hardened his consciousness. With what he genuinely HAD from God, the little light that he was given, he did nothing with. Further speaking will not come. For what one had he may have rejected. He thrust it away from himself.
"For whoever has, it shall be given to him and he will abound; but whoever does not have, even that which he has shall be taken away from him. ( Matt. 13:12)
God does not give light and truth to crush us. But He observes if we will walk in the little bit that He does give us. With the understanding that He granted you, what did you do?
If I found myself in such a deafness to the voice of the Holy Spirit, I would ask God for [b]mercy.
Lord, just give me ONE WORD. Have mercy upon me again dear God. Open my ears to hear just ONE word from You. Open my ears to hear just one word from the throne of God to my heart.
23 Dec 19
@rajk999 saidAs I thought, another claim of error you are unable to back up and even articulate except in broad, unspecific terms.
Are the same guy that believes that the universe is 6000 yrs old?
Then no. I aint showing you nothing. You are a lost cause.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
I have another theory, another suspicion. Yet I could be wrong. I am willing to be corrected if so.
But I think there is correlation between those who do not believe in the Trinity with not appreciating exactly WHO it was who died upon that cross. And those who have an incomplete realization of WHO it was who died upon that cross likewise are ones to protest first about eternal punishment for rejecting this One.
I suspect that seriousness of Christ's work of redemption is undermined by the misunderstanding that He is fully and eternally God-man. And the misunderstanding of this is related to a disbelief in the Trinity. And the result of these two is a strong opposition to the revelation of eternal punishment.
Are those who disbelieve the eternal punishment for rejecting Christ also the ones not believing that in Christ God went as far as it was possible for Him to go to save us from our sins.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
God as a man carried up our sins in His body to the tree.
Perhaps they just really don't believe this.
"Who Himself bore up our sins in His body on the tree, in order that we, having died to sins, might live to righteousness." ( 1 Pet. 2:24)
"Him who did not know sin He made sin on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Cor. 5:21)
God was IN CHRIST reconciling the world to Himself. But some just don't believe this.
"Namely, that God in Christ was reconciling the world to Himself, not accounting their offenses to them, and has put in us the word of reconciliation." (2 Cor. 5:19)
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29756
23 Dec 19
@kellyjay saidI am genuinely mystified that anybody could read/study the OT and NT and come away thinking they were discussing the same God. Sure, the NT follows the same threads, but the jealous and vindictive God has been given a severe makeover.
I think anyone who can read the Old Testament and New Testament and come away thinking there are different gods in the Bible does not grasp Biblical basics, let alone the more profound things of Scripture.
It's akin to viewing the lightsaber fights of the original Star Wars films and their prequels and declaring that the nature and quality of the fights are the same. They're not.