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@sonship saidI’m not really interested sonship. I’m afraid you’ve begun to drop off of my interest radar.
@divegeester
That’s it, your cultish error in all it’s obscene glory.
Your guilt by accusation [sic] because you were told some negative things on an Internet video means NOTHING to me.
Let it sink in. You heard some scuttlebutt. You liked it because you don't like the local churches for your own sectarian reasons. And you immedia ...[text shortened]... ould surmise that we must not be being faithful to what God has given us if there were NO criticism.
1) You believe that accepting the trinity is required for salvation
2) You’re too gutless to be forthright about it
3) I don’t rate you as a writer about Christian topics
4) I’m sick of your endless prevarications
5) You copy/pasted plagiarisms has become boring
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI was speaking to how many gods/God there is in the Bible. You wish to paint the one (g)od you don't believe in as evil that too is up to you.
Yes, I stand alone as the only person who thinks the God (s) portrayed in the Old and New testaments don't marry up.
😵
As an aside, Marcionists believed that the wrathful Hebrew God was a separate entity than the all-forgiving God of the New Testament and considered Him a tyrant.
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I’m not really interested sonship. I’m afraid you’ve begun to drop off of my interest radar.
I am not surprised. Dishonest misrepresentation of other people who catch you doing it and don't let you get away with it, understandably results in them dropping off your interest radar.
@kellyjay saidEverything does. And all the scriptures you posted say nothing about Jesus being Jehovah.
Can you answer my question, what specifically is it is you disagree with in either the link you said you watched, or the things that have been said so far? The salvation of any of us is going to be between us and God through Jesus Christ, while I'm sure that each of us are going to have wrong ideas about God and other things in this life, the one thing I do believe it is a p ...[text shortened]... e Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
Now can you answer my question.... Can one be a Christian and not believe the trinity?
@sonship saidSorry but they don't. Anyway don't remember who quoted this scripture earlier: “Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”​—John 8:58. as being proof that Jesus was God, who of course was before Abraham.
@galveston75
Everything does. And all the scriptures you posted say nothing about Jesus being Jehovah.
I've mentioned it before. There's a lot more evidence in the Bible that Jesus is Jehovah God then there is evidence that Jesus is Michael the archangel.
How does this say Jesus is God? Not only was Jesus long before Abraham but so were all the other angels.
The bible says that Jehovah God has always existed, but it clearly says that Jesus had a beginning. Jesus himself said that. He is called the "First of all creation"
but Jehovah has always existed so he had no beginning.
It still amazes me how one can read those scriptures and not see what is so clear. But as long as one does not want to see, Jehovah will not let you.
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You've all heard from most of us, IMO it is worthwhile to follow carefully this well represented TWO video debate.
Non-trinitarian Rabbi and Dr. Joseph Good
Unitarian Dr. Sir Anthony Buzzard (of Oxford University)
VERSES
trinitarian Dr. Michael Brown (Jewish Christian scholar)
trinitarian Dr. James Whilte (Christian apologist)
Two parts. I recommend you watch the first eight minutes to see if it will be profitable to you, interested readers. I think it is.
Part 1 &t=2010s
Part 2 &t=35s
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@galveston75
I think people should watch the debate.
I think your side is well represented. I favor the trinitarian presentation, of course.
Two questions I'd like answered.
Does one have to believe in the trinity to be Christian?
Do any of the trinitairians here think the Babylonian trinity is the same on a basic level as yours?
#1.) I think a person who does not even know the word "trinity" may be saved and has the Father and the Son. Whether or not he is conversant, he has the Father and the Son and the Spirit as His salvation, his Savior God.
"Everyone who denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who confesses the Son has the Father also." (1 John 2:23)
#2.) I have zero interest in going off to learn about your so-called "Babylonian trinity" or any other kind of trinity you propose forms some template which the New Testament copied. I regard the question as essentially a red herring.
Paul Wrote at Colossians 4:6
Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.
So we may not all agree but lets not be antagonistic guys. The only one that is going to be happy with brothers in the faith taking shots at eachother is the evil one.
Ephesians 4:26 "Be angry, and do not sin"
We are all on the same side, but we have different perspectives.
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@galveston75
You picked just one passage.
There are scores of them.
And it can amaze you or astound you Galveston.
You can claim to be flabbergasted or flummoxed until you are blue in the face.
Incarnation means God became a man.
On one hand, Yes, Jesus was born - the beginning of a human life.
On the other hand, He was the I AM from everlasting, from days of eternity.
@galveston75 saidNeither being a Christian nor an understanding of the Trinity has any relevance to what determines if one is welcomed into the Kingdom of God or cast out. Discussions on Christianity or Trinity or history of Trinity are purely for academic purposes and vain entertainment. If you are unsure of what Jesus wants before someone gets eternal life read Matt 25.
Two questions I'd like answered.
Does one have to believe in the trinity to be Christian?
Do any of the trinitairians here think the Babylonian trinity is the same on a basic level as yours?
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We are all on the same side, but we have different perspectives.
No. A Jehovah's Witness denying Christ is God incarnate is not on the same side as one believing that "and the Word was God" (John 1:1) and that "the Word became flesh" (John 1:14) .
Such a one denying the incarnation may be on the same side as a Moslem in being a monotheistic believer in God.
Such a one denying the incarnation may be on the same side as a Unitarian not believing the Son of God is eternally so.
Such a one denying the incarnation may be more one with the Old Testament Jewish believer about God before the incarnation of Christ.
We cannot sing Kumbaya, my lord together for such a one is not in one accord with a Christian confessing Jesus as Lord.
And if I wanted to be distasteful about it, I would say that the tares sown in among the wheat cannot complain that the wheat is sectarian because they do not include the tares in their crop.
See Matthew 13:24-30; 36-43.
The counterfeit tares sown among the wheat by an enemy of the planter cannot complain that the crop should contain BOTH the wheat and the tares. Tares cannot accuse wheat of being too narrow or sectarian for not including TARES.
This is the point that I keep trying to make. You can gain say on the trinitarian debate and go around in circles.
But is it not true that but both Tinitarian and Unitarian accept Jesus as their Heavenly King; Ransomer and Redeemer?
Is it not true that the very same Jesus who we all claim to revere and hold so high said in John 14:6 "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
The trinity debate is a waste of time because it is an entrenched position. You will not resolve this. I come from a background (as Son will understand) where i can appreciate both the Trinitarian argument and that which Galveston puts forward.
You all believe in The Father (Psalm 83:18 YHWH (New Roman) Jehovah (KJ) Jehovah (NWT); The Son (do I need to quote) and The Holy Spirit.
This line of argument is futile.
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@sonship saidTell me specifically, precisely, how I have “dishonesty misrepresented” you.
@divegeester
Dishonest misrepresentation of other people who catch you doing it and don't let you get away with it, understandably results in them dropping off your interest radar.