07 Jul 12
4 edits
Originally posted by wolfgang59
Half of Genesis alludes to god[b]s creating everything and there are plenty of
references to other gods. The OT is just a mishmash of polytheism and
monotheism. What I find amusing is that much later this plurality of gods is used
to support the idea of a Trinity![/b]
Half of Genesis alludes to gods creating everything and there are plenty of references to other gods.
One half of Genesis alludes to gods creating everything? So up to about chapter 25 there are "plenty of references to other gods" creating everything.
Could you give me three examples of plenty of gods creating everything in the first half of Genesis ?
I'm out here on a limb now. You may just do it. So give it a go.
The OT is just a mishmash of polytheism and
monotheism. What I find amusing is that much later this plurality of gods is used to support the idea of a Trinity!
Give me three examples of the "mishmash of polytheism" in the Old Testament please. I'm very curious.
07 Jul 12
6 edits
While I'm waiting for wolfgang to present his examples of plenty of creating gods and examples of mishmash of polytheism in the Old Testamen, I submit some examples of monotheism in the Old Testament.
Monotheism in the OT: [/b]
"Turn to Me and be saved, All the ends of the earth, For I am God and there is no one else." (Isaiah 45:22)
"I am Jehovah and there is no one else; Besides Me there is no God." (Isaiah 45:5)
"Thus says Jehovah the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts, I am the First and I am the Last, And apart from Me there is no God." (Isa. 44:6)
"And you are My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? Or is there any other Rock? I do not know of any. " (Isa. 44:8b)
What about other gods participating in the creating of the universe ?
God says He did so "alone".
"I am Jehovah who makes all things, Who alone stretches out the heavens, Who spread out the earth (Who was with Me?) " (Isaiah 44:24)
Do we have God speaking of punishing other gods ? Yes, someting like that. The fallen angels and demonic spirits deceived men into worshipping them through idols. In Exodus I believe there are some references to God punishing either the idols or the other gods.
But in Genesis He is "the Most High God." - "And Melchizedec the king of Salem brought out bread and wine. Now he was the priest of God the Most High. And he blessed him [Abram] and said, Blessed be Abram of God the Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth, And blessed be God the Most High, Who has delivered your enemies into your hand." (See Genesis 14:18-20)
God identifies as the "Most High" amid fake idols and god impersonators of fallen angels and demonic spirits. You have monotheism in the Old Testament. The nations sacrifice to idols which are lies and not real gods (Psalm 115:4-8).
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07 Jul 12
Originally posted by Pianoman1
Does anyone believe this stuff any more?? Genesis was written by primitive man as an attempt to explain Life, the Universe and Everything. Primitive man had a primitive understanding of science and evolution. You cannot take this statement as a literal explanation of creation. The sooner we accept that much of Genesis is simply an attempt by early man to ...[text shortened]... rly man it seemed a neat formula to say that God created him in God's likeness. Problem solved.
Does anyone believe this stuff any more??
Unfortunately yes.
Over 40% of the population of the USA believes it for starters.
Primitive man had a primitive understanding of science and evolution.
Primitive man had no understanding of science or evolution because those things hadn't been invented yet.
The sooner we accept that much of Genesis is simply an attempt by early man to explain his existence,
a creation myth, if you like, the better. There is a fundamental need to explain existence, and for early man it
seemed a neat formula to say that God created him in God's likeness. Problem solved.
Well yes obviously... Do tell what your master plan is for convincing people who, think that believing things
based on faith is both valid and virtuous and who wouldn't follow the rules of logic and reason even if they
knew them, that the bible isn't literally true and that god doesn't exist?
07 Jul 12
Originally posted by googlefudgeYes, do tell...
Well yes obviously... Do tell what your master plan is for convincing people who, think that believing things
based on faith is both valid and virtuous and who wouldn't follow the rules of logic and reason even if they
knew them, that the bible isn't literally true and that god doesn't exist?
Even when you say it, it still sounds like the pathetic ramblings of desperate men, driven by their one true leader, the ancient deceiver and the master of lies.
Yeah, good luck with that.
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07 Jul 12
Originally posted by Suzianne"...their one true leader, the ancient deceiver and the master of lies"
Yes, do tell...
Even when you say it, it still sounds like the pathetic ramblings of desperate men, driven by their one true leader, the ancient deceiver and the master of lies.
Yeah, good luck with that.
No enduring ideology will fail to depict its critics as agents of the enemy, if such a facile option is available.
07 Jul 12
5 edits
Originally posted by JS357
"...their one true leader, the ancient deceiver and the master of lies"
No enduring ideology will fail to depict its critics as agents of the enemy, if such a facile option is available.
No enduring ideology will fail to depict its critics as agents of the enemy, if such a facile option is available.
The New Testament says that " the WHOLE WORLD lies in the evil one."
The Bible says that the Devil has deceived the whole inhabited earth.
That includes the deception upon all who are in the inhabited earth.
I will not speak for Suzianne here. But when some of us Christians say that someone is being deceived by the enemy Satan, we certainly are not saying that we ourselves have not also been susceptible to his deception.
We see where truth can be found though. In the word of God, with Christ, the truth.
Saying that certain opposers are being led by Satan, for us is somewhat like saying we are all on the sinking Titanic, and some have not yet realized it. They are still lulled into thinking everything is OK.
There is an amount of empathy in some of us, when we warn others that they are being deceived by God's enemy.
Understand ?
07 Jul 12
Originally posted by googlefudgePrimitive man had no understanding of science or evolution because those things hadn't been invented yet.Does anyone believe this stuff any more??
Unfortunately yes.
Over 40% of the population of the USA believes it for starters.
Primitive man had a primitive understanding of science and evolution.
Primitive man had no understanding of science or evolution because those things hadn't been invented yet.
[quote]The ...[text shortened]... n even if they
knew them, that the bible isn't literally true and that god doesn't exist?
Just a minor clarification here, evolution was not invented, it was discovered.
--- Penguin
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07 Jul 12
Originally posted by Penguinhmm, the process was discovered, the explanatory concepts were invented...?
[b]Primitive man had no understanding of science or evolution because those things hadn't been invented yet.
Just a minor clarification here, evolution was not invented, it was discovered.
--- Penguin[/b]
Maybe...
Originally posted by jaywillno, you can't see where truth can be found. if the whole inhabited world is deceived by satan, then the word of god can be satan's work and christ could be satan's minion or satan himself and you would not be able to tell the difference.
... The New Testament says that " the WHOLE WORLD lies in the evil one."
The Bible says that the Devil has deceived the whole inhabited earth.
That includes the deception upon all who are in the inhabited earth.
...
We see where truth can be found though. In the word of God, with Christ, the truth.
...
08 Jul 12
1 edit
Originally posted by wolfgang59Got it ! Confidently affirm things about the Bible like you really know what you are talking about. Then when called to back it up send the inquirer off to Google.
Off the top of my head no.
Use Google.
Good bluster.
Half of Genesis alludes to gods creating everything and there are plenty of references to other gods. The OT is just a mishmash of polytheism and monotheism. What I find amusing is that much later this plurality of gods is used to support the idea of a Trinity!
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08 Jul 12
Originally posted by jaywillNo enduring ideology will fail to depict its critics as agents of the enemy, if such a facile option is available.
The New Testament says that [b]" the WHOLE WORLD lies in the evil one."
The Bible says that the Devil has deceived the whole inhabited earth.
That includes the deception upon all who are in the inhabited earth.
...[text shortened]... e of us, when we warn others that they are being deceived by God's enemy.
Understand ?[/b]
Saying that certain opposers are being led by Satan, for us is somewhat like saying we are all on the sinking Titanic, and some have not yet realized it. They are still lulled into thinking everything is OK.
There is an amount of empathy in some of us, when we warn others that they are being deceived by God's enemy.
Understand ?
You seem to be agreeing but not agreeing, so I must not be understanding -- saying these two ways of depicting your critics are "somewhat" alike, that is.
Perhaps "No enduring ideology will fail to depict its critics as (sometimes unwitting) agents of the enemy, if such a facile option is available" would suit you better.
08 Jul 12
Originally posted by stellspalfiebecause the books after jesus are written to appeal to the patriarchal society of romans, who were basically the whole world. if you give a concession (women must obey men), you get the biggest empire to spread jesus' message, which is a nice one. also, society depended on women staying home and look after the children (somebody had to).
so why does corinthians say that man should not have his head covered because he is the image and glory of god [b]BUT a woman is the glory of man.
there is a clear indication here that it is man who is more god like, does this refer to mans physicality or is it blatant sexism!![/b]
today one simply must realize that some things in the book are outdated and not be afraid to make changes.
08 Jul 12
Originally posted by twhiteheadi am not looking, but there are many liberal christians who don't find it against god's will to look on animals as worthy of love and respect.
So most animals were 'made in his image' but to differing degrees. I think you will not find many Christians agreeing with you on that one.