Happy Easter

Originally posted by FMF
But they invest no "pagan meaning" in the symbols so there is no "pagan meaning" in them for Indonesian Christians.

it doesn't matter, they are demonstrably pagan symbols irrespective of whether your friends invest meaning to them or douse them in holy water. Now why would a christian utilize a pagan symbol in their worship?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
it doesn't matter, they are demonstrably pagan symbols irrespective of whether your friends invest meaning to them or douse them in holy water. Now why would a christian utilize a pagan symbol in their worship?

Symbols are nothing except things which carry meaning.

Originally posted by FMF
Symbols are nothing except things which carry meaning.

sprinkle sprinkle, there its sanctified!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Now why would a christian utilize a pagan symbol in their worship?

The crucifix for example, for Indonesian Christians, symbolizes the cross on which Jesus died. It is not a "pagan symbol".

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
sprinkle sprinkle, there its sanctified!

No. A symbol simply means what it means to the people who look upon it as a symbol.

Originally posted by FMF
The crucifix for example, for Indonesian Christians, symbolizes the cross on which Jesus died. It is not a "pagan symbol".

Sure sprinkle it with Holy water and its fine, i get it.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Sure sprinkle it with Holy water and its fine, i get it.

You cannot somehow project "paganism" onto the symbol of the crucifix as it is perceived by the Christians who live in Indonesia. You just can't do it.

Originally posted by FMF
No. A symbol simply means what it means to the people who look upon it as a symbol.

No it does not for you cannot simply wipe way history because you sprinkle something with Holy water.

Originally posted by FMF
You cannot somehow project "paganism" onto the symbol of the crucifix as it is perceived by the Christians who live in Indonesia. You just can't do it.

Its a pagan symbol whether they, you or anyone else likes it or not. You can drown it in Holy water all you like, it will not negate what it is.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
No it does not for you cannot simply wipe way history because you sprinkle something with Holy water.

There's nothing you can do to turn the the Christian symbol of the crucifix into a "pagan symbol" in the minds of Indonesia Christians. It does not matter how strongly you personally believe that the crucifix is a "pagan symbol".

Originally posted by FMF
There's nothing you can do to turn the the Christian symbol of the crucifix into a "pagan symbol" in the minds of Indonesia Christians. It does not matter how strongly you personally believe that the crucifix is a "pagan symbol".

sure there is nothing but it does not negate what it is, personally believe? oh dear, i know you dont really do evidence but this should put to flight the rather flimsy assertion that my argument is based on personal belief,

http://www.answering-christianity.com/abdullah_smith/cross_pagan_origins.htm

as for me i will continually draw attention to the fact that your friends are venerating pagan symbols, irrespective of what it means to them, irrespective of what they invest in their symbolism and irrespective of how much holy water they are prepared to sprinkle on them in order to sanctify them.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Its a pagan symbol whether they, you or anyone else likes it or not.

But it's not. What you think it symbolizes does not affect what it symbolizes for them. It simply doesn't, robbie.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
sure there is nothing but it does not negate what it is, personally believe? oh dear, i know you dont really do evidence but this should put to flight the rather flimsy assertion that my argument is based on personal belief,

http://www.answering-christianity.com/abdullah_smith/cross_pagan_origins.htm

Indonesian Christians don't invest "pagan meaning" in the crucifix.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Its a pagan symbol whether they, you or anyone else likes it or not. You can drown it in Holy water all you like, it will not negate what it is.

Where in the Holy Bible does it say that using symbols from paganism has any effect on one's salvation? I am mainly concerned with New Testament Christianity, not Judaism.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Where in the Holy Bible does it say that using symbols from paganism has any effect on one's salvation?

actually this is quite an interesting argument, i think a much more pertinent question to ask is, why would a christian need to utilise a pagan element in their worship?