03 Jan 22
@kellyjay saidThanks for your slab of generic faith speak.
Trust me; if I believe it all depended on me alone, I have already gone there once. I will say this too: some of the most horrible things I have heard in my life came from people who believe in God; they attacked hurting people instead of comforting them during losses, saying things like, if your faith were stronger, your child would not have died. I think I would have explo ...[text shortened]... people like that those they fellowshipped with, a loss of faith would be nothing but understandable.
As I said umpteen pages ago, the logic of your "analysis", applied to you, just as you apply it to me, means that no one can be sure ~ including yourself ~ that you truly believe in Jesus - now in 2022 - until you get all way through your life still believing in Jesus.
03 Jan 22
@fmf saidIf Jesus were not real, anything could happen if it only depended on me. He is real; He is the Good Shepard, He has started a good work and will complete it. I trust Him, and that is my hope, He has shown Himself worthy and faithful as far as I'm concerned in both the good and bad times. In this life, we will have tribulation, no one will avoid that, but we don't have to go through it alone. My faith is not in me; it is in Him.
Thanks for your slab of generic faith speak.
As I said umpteen pages ago, the logic of your "analysis", applied to you, just as you apply it to me, means that no one can be sure ~ including yourself ~ that you truly believe in Jesus - now in 2022 - until you get all way through your life still believing in Jesus.
@kellyjay saidI believed all this kind of thing back in the day. That's why I am applying your assertions/analysis [about me] to you. This is not intended to be a willy-waving contest about HOW REAL or HOW TRUE anyone's faith is or was.
If Jesus were not real, anything could happen if it only depended on me. He is real; He is the Good Shepard, He has started a good work and will complete it. I trust Him, and that is my hope, He has shown Himself worthy and faithful as far as I'm concerned in both the good and bad times. In this life, we will have tribulation, no one will avoid that, but we don't have to go through it alone. My faith is not in me; it is in Him.
@divegeester saidInterestingly, Grampy Bobby used to tell me that you only have to believe in Jesus for one instant and you are irrevocably "saved", even if you lose that faith.
And subsequently the case of FMF losing his sincerely held “walking with Jesus” faith. Does that faith he had then, that walk with Jesus which he had, does that preclude him from being sent to hell.
He was, I think, simply blowing smoke up my bum, thinking it would impress a non-believer, but he repeated it several times.
It was an interesting belief. I haven't heard anyone else here espouse it.
@divegeester saidJames asks the question "Can faith save a man?" Answer NO.
Do any other Christians here believe, as KellyJay does, that losing one’s faith just before one dies doesn’t mean one goes to hell PROVIDING that period of one’s life when one DID have faith, was spent sincerely walking with Jesus?
All men are saved and justified by the death of Christ. Not some, not only those professing faith, ALL
... by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.(Romans 5:18 KJV)
This is the free gift of God, who sent Jesus to die for the sins of all men. But all men do not get eternal life. Eternal life depends on good works and righteousness. Jesus and all the Apostles said nobody enters the Kingdom of God without this. Jesus will judge all men. Nobody can therefore claim to know who gets eternal life or who gets death. Only Jesus Christ knows that.
@fmf saidSonship is pretty close to that. He says say 'O Lord' 3 times and that also does the trick, even if you just mouth the words without believing.
Interestingly, Grampy Bobby used to tell me that you only have to believe in Jesus for one instant and you are irrevocably "saved", even if you lose that faith.
He was, I think, simply blowing smoke up my bum, thinking it would impress a non-believer, but he repeated it several times.
It was an interesting belief. I haven't heard anyone else here espouse it.
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@fmf saidIt’s interesting but doesn’t go far enough.
Interestingly, Grampy Bobby used to tell me that you only have to believe in Jesus for one instant and you are irrevocably "saved", even if you lose that faith.
He was, I think, simply blowing smoke up my bum, thinking it would impress a non-believer, but he repeated it several times.
It was an interesting belief. I haven't heard anyone else here espouse it.
As I remember it Grampy Bobby believed that hell still existed and that people who hadn’t believed for an “instant” were going there. It’s as though one can momentarily think a good thought and be instantaneously excused of and stripped of all responsibility for a lifetime of sins and pardoned from hell.
If however one moves to the perspective where he’ll does not exist at all then the fear of it and the salvation from it becomes nonsensical.
As does the idea of paying for one’s ticket with good works. Good works are a requirement, a commandment by God. They are not an escape ticket from some fiery hellish place of torture.
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@rajk999 saidSonship is exactly that.
Sonship is pretty close to that. He says say 'O Lord' 3 times and that also does the trick, even if you just mouth the words without believing.
Furthermore sonship has stated that he finds the knowledge of god’s judgment with hell to help him forgive those who mistreat him.
What kind of messed up philosophy is that!
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@rajk999 saidAs you know I don’t believe that any more than I believe in hell.
James asks the question "Can faith save a man?" Answer NO.
All men are saved and justified by the death of Christ. Not some, not only those professing faith, ALL
... by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.(Romans 5:18 KJV)
This is the free gift of God, who sent Jesus to die for the sins of all men. But ...[text shortened]... y can therefore claim to know who gets eternal life or who gets death. Only Jesus Christ knows that.
One thing is for certain; neither FMF or divegeester knows what they're talking about with regards to "faith".
FMF denies the existence of the supernatural, which is the context of the "faith" of which is being discussed, which throughly disqualifies any and all of his thoughts and ideas relative to "faith". His words are of no effect and should be disregarded outright.
Divegeester, who claims to be a Christian, blurts insistently all sorts of things that are designed to deride his debate opponent, expressing his personal opinions, yet fails miserably to support his thoughts by referencing the authority on matters relative to "faith".
The both are not merely trolling this forum, they are troll clowns.