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04 Nov 18
2 edits
@Suzianne
Thanks for clarification.
No one here said specifically I was advocating hate speech as far as I know.
That was a remark of pre-emption because a tendency among ult - left folks is to regard the Bible as hate speech.
The time is coming when to be a Christian is synonomous with bigotry. This is the challenge today. "How can a believer in Christ be a good world citizen with toleration?"
This is going to become more and more an issue. "The Christian cannot be a good world citizen."
In considering this post, let me add that I grew up the atmosphere of a social gospel, liberal Presbyterian background, especially in Civil Rights and Human Rights. I'm a child of the 60s in the US and African American too.
I am also not sure the Southern Poverty Law Center is correct all the time when they designate a group as a hate group. I am beginning to wonder if they always have it accurately.
@sonship saidIf I’m “smearing” you at all, then I’m “smearing” your pig ignorant and offensive thread about Christian suicide.
Thread titles are not perfect. "If any one is contemplating suicide" is better probably then "Christ made suicide obsolete".
You lack the insight, experience, humility and grace to even open your pious mouth on the subject.
Consider that a “smear” if you want to, but actually it’s good old fashioned straight from the heart and into your face honesty.
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04 Nov 18
@divegeester
What do you find offensive?
Some videos included adult children who were brought up in gay couples who were tempted to commit suicide.
Was it offensive that I provided a couple of videos concerning the suffering of these people, being brought up to gay?
Was this offensive?
If any of the videos you should look at the last third of the last one in which the subject became "Returning to Science". That was the video exposing the transgender changing puberty blocking drug and physical sex changing.
You found this offensive? I find it a problem.
I included these suffering people as needing the help of the Savior.
04 Nov 18
1 edit
@sonship saidYou said several times in this thread that Christians who committed suicide were “shortsighted”.
@divegeester
What do you find offensive?
It is offensive. You are offensive.
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04 Nov 18
@sonship saidDo you accept there are (and feel sympathy for) gay people who have committed suicide due to social and religious intolerance and bigotry?
@divegeester
What do you find offensive?
Some videos included adult children who were brought up in gay couples who were tempted to commit suicide.
Was it offensive that I provided a couple of videos concerning the suffering of these people, being brought up to gay?
Was this offensive?
If any of the videos you should look at the last third of the last one i ...[text shortened]... ffensive? I find it a problem.
I included these suffering people as needing the help of the Savior.
If so, can you provide youtube clips?
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04 Nov 18
@sonship saidI can.
No one can accuse me here of discouraging anyone from obtaining emergency help from any quarter they can.
Earlier in this thread you wrote, 'Their suffering may be over my head. But I sure wouldn't send anyone contemplating killing themselves to you.'
To you, my atheism rendered by professional experience in mental health irrelevant. This is the reason your views on suicide are dangerously misguided and detached from reality.
04 Nov 18
4 edits
@sonship saidSince you missed the point, I'll spell it out for you. The key is in the first and last sentences from the quote from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services:
@ThinkOfOne
“Suicidal behaviors in LGBT populations appear to be related to “minority stress”, which stems from the cultural and social prejudice attached to minority sexual orientation and gender identity.
I tell all men and women that the Savior Jesus Christ loves them and as He died for me He also died and rose again for them.
Do you think this is "hate speech" ? I think this is Divine Love speech.
Suicidal behaviors in LGBT populations appear to be related to “minority stress”, which stems from the cultural and social prejudice attached to minority sexual orientation and gender identity...
These negative outcomes, rather than minority sexual orientation or gender identity per se, appear to be the key risk factors for LGBT suicidal ideation and behavior.”
In other words, "LGBT suicidal ideation and behavior" stems from "individual experiences of prejudice or discrimination". It does NOT stem from their "sexual orientation or gender identity per se".
The very prejudice and discrimination that YOU promote is the CAUSE of "LGBT suicidal ideation and behavior". That is the part YOU play. People like YOU are at the root of the problem.
People like YOU who use the Bible as a weapon to further your prejudice and discrimination. Just as people from the Antebellum South used the Bible as a weapon to further slavery.
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People like YOU who use the Bible as a weapon to further your prejudice and discrimination. Just as people from the Antebellum South used the Bible as a weapon to further slavery.
Your assessment is not balanced and realistic. The Bible was a mighty inspiration to ABOLISH the slave trade. You can't conveniently ignore that fact.
Those appealing to the Bible to abolish the slave trade pointed to such biblical concepts as :
1.) The dignity of all human beings made in God's image.
2.) The equality of all human beings in God's creation.
3.) The New Testament book of Philemon showing the equal status of the slave owner and the slave in the church.
4.) The warning to masters that they will answer to God.
These and other biblical themes were rationales used by Methodist, Quakers, and Mennonites in their relentless publications condemning as evil the slave trade.
So a lopsided prejudiced revision of history will not trump a more nuanced and balanced realism about how the Bible was abused and used in the matter of slavery.
You may consider yourself "progressive" as a euphemistic way. You may consider heroic and accommodating the further degradation of society in its destruction of the family structure.
If one lets a corpse rot, he may deceive himself by thinking he is advocating "progress". No, he may just be cowardly apathetic to the rotting of human society. The degradation he cannot arrest. So he thinks of it as "progress" in a perverted way.
@sonship saidDo you class a Christian person’s (who has killed themself) “shortsightedness” as mental illness?
@ThinkOfOne
People like YOU who use the Bible as a weapon to further your prejudice and discrimination. Just as people from the Antebellum South used the Bible as a weapon to further slavery.
Your assessment is not balanced and realistic. The Bible was a mighty inspiration to ABOLISH the slave trade. You can't conveniently ignore that fact.
Those ...[text shortened]... uman society. The degradation he cannot arrest. So he thinks of it as "progress" in a perverted way.
05 Nov 18
4 edits
@sonship saidYour assessment is not balanced and realistic. The Bible was a mighty inspiration to ABOLISH the slave trade. You can't conveniently ignore that fact.
@ThinkOfOne
People like YOU who use the Bible as a weapon to further your prejudice and discrimination. Just as people from the Antebellum South used the Bible as a weapon to further slavery.
Your assessment is not balanced and realistic. The Bible was a mighty inspiration to ABOLISH the slave trade. You can't conveniently ignore that fact.
Those ...[text shortened]... uman society. The degradation he cannot arrest. So he thinks of it as "progress" in a perverted way.
Did you really entirely miss the point of my post? Or are you disingenuously side-stepping it by focusing on a comparison made to lend perspective to the way you use the Bible as a weapon? The comparison to people from the Antebellum South who used the Bible as a weapon to further slavery is apt. If you want to discuss the Bible and slavery in detail, then start a thread on that topic.
Here's the main point again:
The very prejudice and discrimination that YOU promote is the CAUSE of "LGBT suicidal ideation and behavior". That is the part YOU play. People like YOU are at the root of the problem.
Any chance that you'll actually address it?
How dare people like you try to deceive people into thinking "LGBT suicidal ideation and behavior" is caused by minority sexual orientation or gender identity itself when the cause is the cultural and social prejudice that YOU inflict upon them.
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05 Nov 18
2 edits
Do you accept there are (and feel sympathy for) gay people who have committed suicide due to social and religious intolerance and bigotry?
Yes, of course. And more so.
I don't listen to Christians who have the wrong spirit and are bringing disrepute to the Gospel.
I would say apologists Tim Keller, Greg Koukle, and others touch the matter with the proper balance of attitude.
YOU need to imagine that all Christians that speak about the subject are filled with hate. That is a caricature you need to argue "Atheism is better" or "Atheism is more compassionate."