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Originally posted by Rank outsider
Does being sent to hell involve pain for the individual concerned for all eternity as a punishment for sins committed?
Yes.
And I think continued sinning calls for continued punishment.
Will God allow the blasphemies, cursing, and hate spewed out at Him not to be judged?
If under mercy and longsuffering and divine patience people carefully arrange their blasphemies and accusations of the Perfect Good God, how much more when He sets them aside from punishment?
You haven't answered this yet.
I answered it above.
Do you need by biblical ground for believing this?
This is what I see.
" And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is the book of life.
And the dead were judged by the things which were written in the scrolls, according to their works.
And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And if anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire." (Rev. 20:12-15)
The footnote in the Recovery Version Bible includes these study notes:
The perishing unbelievers will be judged according to the scrolls, which are a record of their works (vv. 12-13), but they will be cast into the lake of fire according to the book of life. This indicats that they are condemned by the Lord because of their evil deeds but perish because of their unbelief, which issues in their not having their names written in the book of life. Not believing in the Lord Jesus is the unique sin that causes people to perish (John 16:9)
(And, no, my answer won't be based in science. As I said I would be arguing it on moral grounds, it shows how little attention you pay to what others say. And why your responses are so long and rambling. Stop answering questions of your own making and concentrate on what I asked you.)
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31 Oct 16
7 edits
Originally posted by FMF
This is merely a line of your duckspeak, sonship.
No it isn't. It is God's word.
Heaven and earth will pass away before God's word will.
"Punishment" implies "guilt", otherwise it is simply arbitrary cruelty and violence.
To perish is to not be justified from that real guilt.
That is what justification is for.
Christ is the propitiation for our sins that we may be justified forever.
Your thought is that this is no big deal.
But this is a big deal.
There's none bigger really.
What are the tortured people guilty of?
Since the fall of Adam we have the sin nature. It makes us guilty.
It matters to be reconciled to God.
Your philosophy is it doesn't matter. To you it is a thing of no consequence for whatever reason you imagine.
Readers will have to decide for themselves.
The Bible teaches sinners need to be reconciled to God.
You say this does not matter and there are no consequences.
And if you end up in perishing and shouting out forever "I don't understand! I don't understand!" then that will just be what it is. The Bible tried to warn you. It matters to be reconciled to God.
What explicit contractual obligation or broken promise are they in breech of? What is their wrongdoing and who is the "victim" of it?
You write here day in and day out arguments to turn people away from Christ. What effect this will have on the fabric of time for others, I do not know. God knows.
The same goes for me.
So we need to be justified. We need to be reconciled to God.
Christ died and rose that we could be justified.
And if you shout out forever "I don't understand! I don't understand this!" that will be your choice.
If regurgitating doctrine is all you can muster in answer to these basic questions, then you have no recognizable moral compass.
It is a small thing that I be judged by you. There is One to whom I will give an account.
" Who shall bring a charge against God's chosen ones? It is God who justifies.
Who is he who condemns? It is Christ Jesus who died and, rather, who was raised, who is also at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us." (Rom. 8;33,34)
You should read the story of Balaam the Gentile prophet who was hired by Balak to curse the children of Israel. Great story. (Numbers 22)
Balaam (for greedy self interest) goes and tries from this angle and from that angle and again from another angle. And God says that He sees no fault in Israel. God sees His people there through the eyes of His having justified them.
Was Israel perfect ? By no means. They had plenty of correction, rebuke, adjustment and discipline by God. But when Balaam the prophet was hired to pronounce some condemnation on them for the sake of their enemies, Balaam could do nothing.
All your pronouncing of my supposed moral unqualifications only remind me of the accuser trying to bring a condemning charge against those whom God has justified.
Now you will get busy to twist this also. Now you will probably say I then have no sense of responsibility or cannot be corrected for anything wrong. No, that is far from the case.
You are just not the doctor who can administer the medicine.
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31 Oct 16
1 edit
Does your heart ever blame you ?
If your heart ever blames you God is greater than your heart and knows everything.
" ... if our heart blames us, it is because God is greater than our heart and knows all things." (1 John 3:20)
There is such a thing as an over sensative conscience. And our heart may blame us when God would not. But He knows all the facts.
Most of us have a self blaming heart that is more healthy. And we know that we are at fault. We know we have sinned.
If I could live perfectly from this day forward until i die, that could not erase the record of sins committed up until THIS day. The sinner must realize that he would not be living perfectly. And he cannot erase the stain of guilt for yesterday just because he does well today.
God has made provision to remove every stain of actual guilt before God. It is the redeeming blood of Christ.
FMF complains "But there is no guilt. But there is no guilt."
But there is guilt. Each of our hearts convicts us of guilt to one degree or another.
When we stand in the light of the law of God, we know we are guilty.
When we stand even more in the light of the Perfect man Jesus, we know that we fall far short. We are condemned as sinful.
If our heart (our conscience) informs us of wrong, God is greater than our heart. We only see the tip of the iceberg.
If we stand in a 100 Watt light and see our stains what will it be to stand in 1,000,000 watt light ? So God has made provision for the sinner's justification. Christ has borne our sins in His body on His cross.
And God makes Christ Himself our history, our past, our righteousness. Our sins are not overlooked. Our sins a judged in Christ's expiatory death on the cross on our behalf.
Instead of guilt then we have Christ Himself as our very righteousness.
Originally posted by sonship
Does your heart ever blame you ?
If your heart ever blames you God is greater than your heart and knows everything.
[b] " ... if our heart blames us, it is because God is greater than our heart and knows all things." (1 John 3:20)
There is such a thing as an over sensative conscience. And our heart may blame us when God would n ...[text shortened]... cross on our behalf.
Instead of guilt then we have Christ Himself as our very righteousness.[/b]Tell me, where was the intelligent design when we ended up with 'wisdom' teeth? We have to pull them and recent research suggests we don't have to do it to 100% of people like we used to but I imagine over half need to have them removed. How is that intelligent?
31 Oct 16
Originally posted by sonshipNo, I said it. In response to you claiming you don't care about other people's opinions. Of course you are just being dishonest now, pretending I claimed you said it. Obfuscating.
is that something i said? I get upset ?
Where did I say that ?
You DO care about people's opinions and you get upset and say nasty things when you read them. That's what this is about.
31 Oct 16
Originally posted by 667joeDoes it explain the universe this all supposed to have taken place in, or just ignores the
Evolution explains wisdom teeth much better than (un)intelligent design! 667joeDDS
full picture? How about how anything could find itself in a place where all the necessary
pieces of the puzzle just happen to all come together and work at the proper time to allow
for wisdom teeth?
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31 Oct 16
Originally posted by KellyJayYes, it does all that.
Does it explain the universe this all supposed to have taken place in, or just ignores the
full picture? How about how anything could find itself in a place where all the necessary
pieces of the puzzle just happen to all come together and work at the proper time to allow
for wisdom teeth?
01 Nov 16
Originally posted by sonshipOne only has to take a look at what you tout as being "perfect justice" and "ultimate morality" to see that your ideology has placed you at the very heart of the deepest darkness that the human imagination has ever conjured up. I simply cannot conceive of anything more grotesque than what you claim is "perfect" and "ultimate". Nobody has ever come up with anything more demented and depraved in the history of human fantasy. I therefore find you to have no credibility on moral and justice issues. And I cannot remember - in all the years of reading what you write - you ever giving me any practical insights into morality and justice. None. Of course, it's no wonder. You'd need to have a recognizable moral compass to be able to do so.
All your pronouncing of my supposed moral unqualifications only remind me of the accuser trying to bring a condemning charge against those whom God has justified.
01 Nov 16
Originally posted by sonshipYour ideology allows you to condemn all your fellow humans in a most misanthropic way AND, at the same time, declare yourself "forgiven" (and immortal) ~ merely based on thinking things about yourself and thinking things about God. How convenient.
But there is guilt. Each of our hearts convicts us of guilt to one degree or another.
When we stand in the light of the law of God, we know we are guilty.
When we stand even more in the light of the Perfect man Jesus, we know that we fall far short. We are condemned as sinful.
01 Nov 16
Originally posted by KellyJayWhat does the full picture have to do with the fact we don't need wisdom teeth? Would you bring up the fact there are bacteria 2 miles undergroud, as part of this bigger picture? Or the fact that Titan has liquid methane lakes? What are you driving at here? Sounds like obfuscation to me, slide some red herrings in the way, maybe that will get people off the subject at hand.
Does it explain the universe this all supposed to have taken place in, or just ignores the
full picture? How about how anything could find itself in a place where all the necessary
pieces of the puzzle just happen to all come together and work at the proper time to allow
for wisdom teeth?
01 Nov 16
Originally posted by sonhouseThe full picture must always support the current status and maintains life the whole universe has to support it. If the universe ever stops supporting life it will all break down.
What does the full picture have to do with the fact we don't need wisdom teeth? Would you bring up the fact there are bacteria 2 miles undergroud, as part of this bigger picture? Or the fact that Titan has liquid methane lakes? What are you driving at here? Sounds like obfuscation to me, slide some red herrings in the way, maybe that will get people off the subject at hand.
01 Nov 16
Originally posted by KellyJayWell, it has been going fine for billions of years with no immediate end in sight (the universe and the laws of physics there) so you are still fishing for red herrings. So supporting the idea that a billion years from now it will be pretty much same ole same ole then the question still is here, why we need wisdom teeth, without introducing the 'big' picture.
The full picture must always support the current status and maintains life the whole universe has to support it. If the universe ever stops supporting life it will all break down.
It is still bad design no matter how you look at it. I know not all wisdom teeth have to be removed but humans can clearly get along just fine without wisdom teeth so they were never needed in the first place but yet, from the perspective of one who believes in biblical creation, it is a mistake from a design point of view. Also the male prostate, another mistake to have it clinging around the urethra instead of residing next to it where it would be unable to stop urine flow. Another design error. So it sounds like, if bible creation is correct, your god put in some zingers deliberately. Not a god I would worship, but instead a god I would revile. Like allowing three year old's to get cancer and die before they could even understand the world enough to make a decision as to whether they would be religious or not. Another design flaw. Or deliberate introductions of flaws by a god with a sick sense of humor. I imagine in that case it would be laughing at all the misery just those three design flaws makes to the human race.