Intelligent? Design

Originally posted by sonhouse
Creationists just don't get the science involved. There are several distinct and separate studies of life, evolution and how the universe got here. Evolution as a scientific study doesn't really care HOW life got here, it ONLY discusses how life changes from what to what AFTER there is already life on Earth. Of course that is never good enough for creationi ...[text shortened]... say. It's making people sick. Ok, lets make up a verse and say it came from god, DO NOT EAT PIG.

Thank you as I said evolutionists do not care about the big picture they have other people worrying about that. No need to work out how stars played apart in the process so they ignore everything except their piece of the puzzle.

The Big Bang does not address where everything comes from since the singularity and whatever it was sitting in are part of everything so where did they come from is the question?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I'm open to the idea of the universe being eternal. It is also a notion currently supported by many renowned scientists (not to mention millions of Jainists).

What are the odds that all these renowned scientists are atheist?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I'm open to the idea of the universe being eternal. It is also a notion currently supported by many renowned scientists (not to mention millions of Jainists).

Open to the possible idea, why is that something pointing you that way?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Open to the possible idea, why is that something pointing you that way?

I'm open minded.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I'm open minded.

But not open minded enough for the possibility that the universe had a beginning?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
But not open minded enough for the possibility that the universe had a beginning?

Why does me being open to the idea of the universe being eternal mean I am not open minded to the possibility of the universe having a beginning?

Do you not understand the meaning of 'open minded'?

Edit: Are you open minded to both possibilities? Of course you're not.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I'm open minded.

If you are open minded do you think the universe could be created to do the things its doing?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Why does me being open to the idea of the universe being eternal mean I am not open minded to the possibility of the universe having a beginning?

Do you not understand the meaning of 'open minded'?

Edit: Are you open minded to both possibilities? Of course you're not.

I only see one possible beginning which is creation, without that there doesn't appear to
be any other choice than an eternal universe. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

The Big Bang doesn't even address the start of everything since the singularity and what
ever or where it was had to be there, so the start of everything would begin with both the
singularity and wherever it was. Once we know where they came from then we would
have something to compare creation too.

Without a beginning then the eternal universe has to be the only thing left and then you
run into the issues of everything running down over endless time nothing would survive.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I only see one possible beginning which is creation, without that there doesn't appear to
be any other choice than an eternal universe. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

The Big Bang doesn't even address the start of everything since the singularity and what
ever or where it was had to be there, so the start of everything would begin wit ...[text shortened]... hen you
run into the issues of everything running down over endless time nothing would survive.

Big bang
big crunch
Big bang
big crunch
Ad infinitum...

Originally posted by KellyJay
I only see one possible beginning which is creation, without that there doesn't appear to
be any other choice than an eternal universe. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

The Big Bang doesn't even address the start of everything since the singularity and what
ever or where it was had to be there, so the start of everything would begin wit ...[text shortened]... hen you
run into the issues of everything running down over endless time nothing would survive.

We only have the BB theory and inflation that explains things pretty well as we see them. But that doesn't mean it is 100% correct or the only theory extant. We just found out the count of galaxies in the entire universe used to be something around 200 billion. Now that number is shown to be more like 10 TRILLION, something like 50 times more stuff out there than we thought. If so, there may be an end like the guy just said, big crunch which may lead to a big bang and anther big crunch to another BB which if true would lead to the idea we (our universe) has been down this road before, maybe billions of times over quadrillions of years which of course is pure speculation but it may well be our BB was only one of many which runs the original creation back trillions or quadrillions of years or maybe to a time infintely back in the past.

There is another theory about the BB that our universe was the result of a black hole in a parent universe where what the BB is in reality, is what we call the 'white' hole, where the stuff that went into the parent universe black hole is what came out to be our universe which could also put 'creation' back to an infinitely distant past so far back we can't even number the years. Or maybe whatever caused the parent universe to appear could have been a white hole from a grandparent universe black hole. This could lead to the idea there are an infinite number of universes existing in probably multiple dimesions of space and time.

So if we show any of those things to be true it kind of puts your creation myth out the window. Of course even if it was scientifically proven our universe came from a parent universe, creationists will still go on believing the myth.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Big bang
big crunch
Big bang
big crunch
Ad infinitum...

Wishful thinking to avoid another possible beginning?

Originally posted by sonhouse
We only have the BB theory and inflation that explains things pretty well as we see them. But that doesn't mean it is 100% correct or the only theory extant. We just found out the count of galaxies in the entire universe used to be something around 200 billion. Now that number is shown to be more like 10 TRILLION, something like 50 times more stuff out ther ...[text shortened]... oven our universe came from a parent universe, creationists will still go on believing the myth.

You know you can always come up with some possible way other than creation for it all to
begin, you don't even have to have evidence just a thought and that will be what you hang
your hat on. In the mean time, there is nothing outside of creation right now that actually
answers the questions of how and why.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Wishful thinking to avoid another possible beginning?

With respect sir, wishful thinking is your bag.

Also worth noting that 'time' is a finite human concept. Perhaps an infinite universe goes beyond our understanding of 'time.' - You wouldn't try and restrain your God with finite understanding, so why do so with the universe?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
With respect sir, wishful thinking is your bag.

Also worth noting that 'time' is a finite human concept. Perhaps an infinite universe goes beyond our understanding of 'time.' - You wouldn't try and restrain your God with finite understanding, so why do so with the universe?

I just want your justification for theses views! I can give you reasons for mine without belittling your ability to grasp anything.

Originally posted by KellyJay
You know you can always come up with some possible way other than creation for it all to
begin, you don't even have to have evidence just a thought and that will be what you hang
your hat on. In the mean time, there is nothing outside of creation right now that actually
answers the questions of how and why.

And your evidence? Verses in a book thousands of years old. That's it. The thing is, there are hundreds of creation stories from other religions and how do you prove YOURS is the true one? The answer is you can't. All you have and that's ALL you have is faith.

Faith is not proof. Faith is just blind trusting in words written down thousands of years ago.

Words written by men and you just have this faith it is just dictation given by a god.

But you totally ignore all the irrational stories and verses such as 'I am a jealous god' as if a god would ever be jealous of men. That would be like me owning an ant colony becoming jealous of one of the ants there. But of course you cannot and will NEVER view such statements in that light because you are totally programmed to follow the creed.

Yes, there are several scientific theories as to how the universe got here but at least there ARE theories. Your creation myth is just taken at face value for no other reason than the entire Christian community is simply programmed to believe nothing else and of course it is the most successful scam in human history, I'll give it that.

You seem to diss science because it can't answer the big questions. Like I said, science is still in kindergarten, we need another thousand years of the explosive growth of science to be able to answer the big questions. In that future thousand year era, your story will proceed unchanged. Why? because christians are programmed that way from early age.

You also will never get the idea that the scientific search for truth in life origins and evolution and the origin of the universe are three separate science disciplines and no amount of you dissing science will change that. Science will advance in spite of all the nay saying of creationists. I rather think you FEAR the results of science because it has the possibility of destroying the foundations of your faith. I think THAT is the crux of why you dis science.