Intelligent? Design

Originally posted by Rajk999
God so loved the world [not Chistians only],
that he gave his only begotton Son to die [for the world not Christians only]
so that whoever believes in Him [with their heart and not just their mouth]
will not perish but have everlasting life.

Those who live righteously, and follow the commandments of Christ, chief of which is love for fellow man , have ...[text shortened]... eligions will be destroyed.
Good and righteous of all religions, will enter the kingdom of God.

Where in the Bible does it say that people are made 'good and righteous' by their deeds?

Aren't all people sinful?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Read Romans chapter 2 about 20 times.

I actually think you dealing with selective reading again, and I'm also sure you are more
than likely adding your twist to scripture to make it mean something other than what it is
saying. Did you bother to read the 3rd chapter too where it says and I'll quote it without
adding my own twist to it as you do.

NIV Romans 3:

9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10 As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 
    there is no one who understands;
    there is no one who seeks God.
12 
All have turned away,
    they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
    not even one.”
13 
“Their throats are open graves;
    their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
14 
    “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 
“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 
    ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 
and the way of peace they do not know.”
18 
    “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

You don't believe these words?

I guess you have issue here too with what the scripture clearly says.

Romans 3:
21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith.

Originally posted by sonship
Proper Knob asks

Could you name a biological system or two and lay out the math which demonstrates that these biological system's 'have a greater probability of being intelligently designed'?

I would recommend you take a look at a book by MIT physicist Gerald L. Schroeder called [b]"The Science of God".

I would suggest you read ...[text shortened]... chapter 7, "Evolution: Statistics Versus Random Mutations" discusses these matters also.[/b]

Have you come across anybody else who's calculations match with MIT physicist Gerald L. Schroeder? Or are you basing your earlier assertion i mentioned on just this one person?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I actually think you dealing with selective reading again, and I'm also sure you are more
than likely adding your twist to scripture to make it mean something other than what it is
saying. Did you bother to read the 3rd chapter too where it says and I'll quote it without
adding my own twist to it as you do.

NIV Romans 3:

9 What shall we conclude th ...[text shortened]... d Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith.

Romans 3 does not cancel Romans 2.
Some coming to God through faith does not cancel those pleasing God through works.
Some are justified by faith and some are justified by works.
That is the whole story.

You are a biased shallow small-minded Christian who would like to think that God thinks like you and that God lacks compassion and mercy like you. There are good and righteous people in all religions and God is with these people and will bring them into His Kingdom.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Romans 3 does not cancel Romans 2.
Some coming to God through faith does not cancel those pleasing God through works.
Some are justified by faith and some are justified by works.
That is the whole story.

You are a biased shallow small-minded Christian who would like to think that God thinks like you and that God lacks compassion and mercy like you. Th ...[text shortened]... teous people in all religions and God is with these people and will bring them into His Kingdom.

It does not cancel it out correct it continues to build upon the point we need Christ which
is something you reject. No one is justified by works, we do works because we are obeying
the Lord.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Are people born Muslim?

What a stupid and disingenuous comment. It just makes you look as if you know I am correct, but have no arguments to counter me.

All the statistics available show that, if you are brought up in a religious 'community' you will most likely adopt the prevailing religion.

If your parents are Christian, and bring you up from birth to believe that this is the one true religion, and all your friends are Christian, and the school you attend is Christian, it is overwhelming likely that you will be a Christian.

If your parents are Muslim, and bring you up from birth to believe that this is the one true religion, and all your friends are Muslim, and the school you attend is Muslim, it is overwhelming likely that you will be a Muslim.

It is immense arrogance if you believe that you personally would have been able to prevail against these influences. And it is also irrelevant to the argument that a tiny minority of people from these backgrounds have changed religion. It's like arguing that black people should start 5 yards behind white people in a 100m race, but that's OK because Usain Bolt still wins.

When the outcome is either eternal torture or eternal paradise, the need for fairness is overwhelming and yet you have been given the easier ride for no conceivable reason.

You simply don't have an answer as to why it is fair for God to stack the odds against some people simply as a result of where they were born, do you?

Originally posted by Rank outsider
What a stupid and disingenuous comment. It just makes you look as if you know I am correct, but have no arguments to counter me.

All the statistics available show that, if you are brought up in a religious 'community' you will most likely adopt the prevailing religion.

If your parents are Christian, and bring you up from birth to believe that th ...[text shortened]... or God to stack the odds against some people simply as a result of where they were born, do you?

I'm not denying people brought up in a religious community will start off the way of the
community, but with Christianity that is a born again experience. It doesn't matter if one was
brought up Muslim or not.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'm not denying people brought up in a religious community will start off the way of the
community, but with Christianity that is a born again experience. It doesn't matter if one was
brought up Muslim or not.

So, remembering the two scenarios:

Case A : Parents are Christian, bring you up from birth to believe that this is the one true religion, all your friends are Christian, and the school you attend is Christian

Case B: Parents are Muslim, bring you up from birth to believe that this is the one true religion, all your friends are Muslim, and the school you attend is Muslim.

Your argument is that is as easy for Case A to find their way to Jesus as it is for Case B?

Originally posted by Rank outsider
So, remembering the two scenarios:

Case A : Parents are Christian, bring you up from birth to believe that this is the one true religion, all your friends are Christian, and the school you attend is Christian

Case B: Parents are Muslim, bring you up from birth to believe that this is the one true religion, all your friends are Muslim, and the sch ...[text shortened]... .

Your argument is that is as easy for Case A to find their way to Jesus as it is for Case B?

We are to make the choices ourselves having Christian parents does not void we must ourselves make that choice. the same is true if you were born Muslim.

Originally posted by Rank outsider
So, remembering the two scenarios:

Case A : Parents are Christian, bring you up from birth to believe that this is the one true religion, all your friends are Christian, and the school you attend is Christian

Case B: Parents are Muslim, bring you up from birth to believe that this is the one true religion, all your friends are Muslim, and the sch ...[text shortened]... .

Your argument is that is as easy for Case A to find their way to Jesus as it is for Case B?

Clearly Case B is at a disadvantage and far less likely to find their way to a Christian God.

Sure, it's possible, but far less likely. (Hence why the majority of people in Islamic countries adhere to Islam, and why the vast majority of people born in Japan follow Shintoism or Buddhism).

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Clearly Case B is at a disadvantage and far less likely to find their way to a Christian God.

Sure, it's possible, but far less likely. (Hence why the majority of people in Islamic countries adhere to Islam, and why the vast majority of people born in Japan follow Shintoism or Buddhism).

If God is all knowing and powerful and His goal is to call anyone to make a choice would there be anything that could hinder Him?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Clearly Case B is at a disadvantage and far less likely to find their way to a Christian God.

Sure, it's possible, but far less likely. (Hence why the majority of people in Islamic countries adhere to Islam, and why the vast majority of people born in Japan follow Shintoism or Buddhism).

From one man He made every nation of men, to inhabit the whole earth; and He determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their lands. God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. (Acts 17:26,27)

Originally posted by KellyJay
If God is all knowing and powerful and His goal is to call anyone to make a choice would there be anything that could hinder Him?

Well either there is something to hinder him, or God has a bias towards calling more people in certain localities and societies than others.

Originally posted by KellyJay
We are to make the choices ourselves having Christian parents does not void we must ourselves make that choice. the same is true if you were born Muslim.

That was not the question I asked. I asked you whether it was easier for Case A to make that choice than Case B.

Are you going to answer the question?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
From one man He made every nation of men, to inhabit the whole earth; and He determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their lands. God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. (Acts 17:26,27)

Tricky that, for people brought up in societies that had never even heard of Jesus Christ.