@kellyjay saidSo what you say is more important than what Paul says which is the inspired word of God. Why are you not addressing what Paul said which totally contradicts your statement? You really are lame. You should try shutting up instead of talking and making a fool of yourself.
Yes, we come to God; it is God who saves us. We do not earn our way in; He did that. If we are not abiding in Him, we have no part in Him if He isn't in us.
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@KellyJay
Thankyou. Very good fellowship.
Sure, people must touch the Person of the Lord Jesus in thier spirit. But how dynamic and living He is. And how willing He is to receive men. And how eager He is to begin to grow within them.
So we must confess with the mouth and believe in the heart.
And this confession and believing is good no only for initial regeneration.
I think it is good for any day afterwards when we allow Him to make more of His
home in our hearts through faith.
God has shown me that he has used some scoffers to keep us humble.
Otherwise I might be lifted up because of the transcendence of the revelation.
What a purpose of God to live for, to minister to one another for the building up of the masterpiece of God, the Body of Christ.
"For we are His masterpiece, created in CHrist Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand in order tht we would walk in them." (Eph. 2:10)
03 Mar 22
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidGosh Ghost! I hope you didn't think my comment was in reference to you.
I'm always writing a book.
I'm pretty sure I was replying to K11's reply to sonship. 🙂
Edit: I was mistaken. "He's writing a book I think" was about sonship. Seems I conflated again. 🙃
I hope your book is a success!
03 Mar 22
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@sonship saidJust a little more reading and you will see that Paul says
@KellyJay
Thankyou. Very good fellowship.
Sure, people must touch the Person of the Lord Jesus in thier spirit. But how dynamic and living He is. And how willing He is to receive men. And how eager He is to begin to grow within them.
So we must confess with the mouth and believe in the heart.
And this confession and believing is good no only for initia ...[text shortened]... for good works, which God prepared beforehand in order tht we would walk in them." (Eph. 2:10) [/b]
to the very same Ephesian Christians
..... NO INHERITANCE for sinful Christian Saints.
So, boast all day that you are saved, sanctified, justified,
You are masterpiece. You are in Christ. You abide in Christ
All that is worthless talk, if you do not keep the commandments.
Jesus called your type foolish men.
03 Mar 22
@rajk999 saidIt is you that is foolish for projecting onto what sonship said something he wasn't talking about without really understanding what he was talking about.
Just a little more reading and you will see that Paul says
to the very same Ephesian Christians
..... NO INHERITANCE for sinful Christian Saints.
So, boast all day that you are saved, sanctified, justified,
You are masterpiece. You are in Christ. You abide in Christ
All that is worthless talk, if you do not keep the commandments.
Jesus called your type foolish men.
In other words, you're off topic. All you hear is the buzz in your head and you think that's what others are talking about.
03 Mar 22
@josephw saidNobody is really interested in your opinion [or mine for that matter] of who/what is foolish or otherwise. The wise man listens to Christ and hears what Christ says about who is foolish and who is wise. You are in the same category of people Jesus referred to as foolish men.
It is you that is foolish for projecting onto what sonship said something he wasn't talking about without really understanding what he was talking about.
In other words, you're off topic. All you hear is the buzz in your head and you think that's what others are talking about.
03 Mar 22
@rajk999 saidWell, ok. So who cares what your opinion is?
Nobody is really interested in your opinion [or mine for that matter] of who/what is foolish or otherwise. The wise man listens to Christ and hears what Christ says about who is foolish and who is wise. You are in the same category of people Jesus referred to as foolish men.
Unless of course Jesus spoke to you personally and told you to tell me I'm in the category of foolish men.
By the way, "categorizing" is a tactic of Satan. Maybe it's his voice you hear in your head. Better find an exorcist quickly before you float off the ground and spew the content of your bowels onto some unsuspecting fool. 🤣
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The OP asks a good question.
The eternal plan of God is that God would be SEEN in that God would be (if you will) WE-IZED. God would mass produce the mingling of humanity and divinity of the Firstborn Son of God.
Do other Christians recognize the above as God's eternal plan, as laid out in scripture? Or has sonship completely lost the plot?
Now I would ask a few questions.
1.) Why is Jesus concerned that He would abide ALONE ?
He is quite unique. Admittedly He did things none of us can ever do.
Yet, He did not want the grain of wheat that "abides alone".
"Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless the grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone; but if it dies it bears much fruit." (John 12:24)
Which did Jesus Christ prefer?
The grain of wheat abide ALONE? Or
The grain of wheat produce "much fruit" ?
I say He desired to fall into the ground in death and resurrect Himself and be imparted into many to duplicate as "much fruit".
IN FACT . . . the context suggests that THIS was for Him to be "glorified." Consider the words spoken just prior to verse 23.
"These [Greeks] then came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida of Galilee, and asked him, saying, Sir, we wish to see Jesus. Philip came and told Andrew; Andres came, and Philip too, and they told Jesus. And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified.
Truly, truly, I say to you. Unless the grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit."
See how Jesus ANSWERED them?
That the Gentile Greeks sought Him, was the signal that it was time for His hour of
crucifixion and resurrection to come that He would be glorified in multiplication.
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03 Mar 22
The multiplication of the one grain into much fruit is the corporate Christ.
The divine life was concealed in the shell of His humanity.
When He died that shell was broken and the divine life concealed within Him alone was duplicated in all those who were redeemed by His death.
He fell into the ground to die for the purpose of His glorification.
We may think glorification only means He is at the right hand of God in some
objective glory in heaven.
I would not say that that is wrong. But it is shortsighted. Because for Him to be multiplied into many grains as the much fruit after falling into the ground to die, was for Him to be glorified.
The next passage shows that though He alone paid the price of redemption in His death, we die to the self centered old life and follow Him - learning to live not by ourselves but through Him.
You didn't see that ??
" . . . Unless the grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone; but if it dies it bears much fruit.
He who loves his soul-life loses it; and he who hates his soul-life in this world shall keep it unto eternal life." (vs.24,24)
When we see the preciousness of Christ we can consider in comparison our old Christless life, Godless Adamin soul - life as a hateful thing in COMPARISON.
03 Mar 22
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@sonship saidYes indeed, thats the sound of Satan ..
Josephw I am interested in your posts.
I am interested in the ones I would have written myself.
I am interested in the ones in which you examine something I wrote which you
would not hove.
Don't be discouraged in any way by Rajk999.
.. God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (Genesis 3:1-5 KJV)
God said one thing but, Satan says another.
God requires one thing, Satan encourages the gullible to believe the opposite
03 Mar 22
@josephw saidNot my opinion at all. I would be happy to quote the verses. The foolish man - promotes and believes disobedience to the commandments. The Wise man - promotes and believes in obedience to the commandments.
Well, ok. So who cares what your opinion is?
Unless of course Jesus spoke to you personally and told you to tell me I'm in the category of foolish men.
By the way, "categorizing" is a tactic of Satan. Maybe it's his voice you hear in your head. Better find an exorcist quickly before you float off the ground and spew the content of your bowels onto some unsuspecting fool. 🤣
Clearly your church discouraged you from reading the bible, and categorizing is the way of God and of Christ. There are
Jews / Gentiles
Righteous / Unrighteous
Saved / Unsaved
Faithful / Unfaithful
Sheep / Goats
Good / Evil
Keepers of the commandments / Sonship and Josephw.
03 Mar 22
@sonship saidBelieve it or not Rajk actually is an encouragement in the sense that what he says is both a mischaracterization and interpretation, as well as a misapplication of the scriptures he references from which he draws conclusions not consistent with the truth he claims to champion.
Josephw I am interested in your posts.
I am interested in the ones I would have written myself.
I am interested in the ones in which you examine something I wrote which you
would not hove.
Don't be discouraged in any way by Rajk999.
Like knowing what real money looks like and spotting a counterfeit because you're so familiar with what the real thing is.
03 Mar 22
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@josephw saidPretty close. If we go to the book of psalms 37:11 “the meek shall inherit the earth” so a definite group of people whose destiny would be to take possession of the earth. We also know (let me know if you need this proving having to quote scripture and verse but trying to spare you the ordeal of reading an essay) from the time of Christ that there was a group who would go to heaven, but they would be incorruptible, as you have correctly alluded to. Check out 1 Cor 15:50 where it tells you that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom.
No problem
Probably the most interesting idea I've heard in this forum in quite a while.
Let me see if I understand what you mean. "Earthly calling", perhaps terrestrial, made of matter, in the original state of creation, being "eternal", can be killed or die physically, but those who attain a "heavenly calling" are immortal in that they cannot be killed; I'm assuming because they are constructed of material suited to immortality.
Is that correct?
So mankind becomes divided in the physical sense by two paths, both of who have eternal life. The one bound for the earth, the other to form a governing group to abide in the heavens.
03 Mar 22
@rajk999 saidMatt 7:21 supports this with a clear warning. There will be those appearing to be faithful to the point if powerful works, who would be rejected because of their lawless (sinful) behaviour.
Just a little more reading and you will see that Paul says
to the very same Ephesian Christians
..... NO INHERITANCE for sinful Christian Saints.
So, boast all day that you are saved, sanctified, justified,
You are masterpiece. You are in Christ. You abide in Christ
All that is worthless talk, if you do not keep the commandments.
Jesus called your type foolish men.