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So one group, the heavenly class goes to heaven (spirit anointed).
There may be groups of Christians. But it is not a grouping according to SOME are anointed with the Holy Spirit and have the pledge of the Spirit and some do not have the anointing of the Spirit and the pledge in thier hearts.
THAT is not any basis of dividing the Christians.
Now if you want to talk about the rewarded and the disciplined, that is different.
"If anyone's work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward;
If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:15,16)
Now there is a BIBLICAL distinction between rewarded Christians when Jesus examines them and those who suffer loss.
All are saved.
All have the Spirit of Christ or they would not BE His.
All have the pledge of the Spirit in their hearts.
All were firmly attached to Christ and anointed with His Spirit, by God.
@sonship saidBlatant shameless cherry picking, Leave out the very next passages you dont like because Paul said clearly that evil Christian Saints will be destroyed.So one group, the heavenly class goes to heaven (spirit anointed).
There may be groups of Christians. But it is not a grouping according to SOME are anointed with the Holy Spirit and have the pledge of the Spirit and some do not have the anointing of the Spirit and the pledge in thier hearts.
THAT is not any basis of dividing the Christians.
Now ...[text shortened]... e Spirit in their hearts.
All were firmly attached to Christ and anointed with His Spirit, by God.
You are misleading people who cannot or will not read the bible for themselves. That is a grave sin.
04 Mar 22
@rajk999 said"Evil Christian Saints" is an oxymoron. Moron.
Blatant shameless cherry picking, Leave out the very next passages you dont like because Paul said clearly that evil Christian Saints will be destroyed.
You are misleading people who cannot or will not read the bible for themselves. That is a grave sin.
There's no such language or inference in the scriptures. Yours is a bigoted and warped understanding of the Word of God.
What's the matter with you? Did a piano fall out of a third floor window onto your head? 🤣
@josephw saidThe moron is the man that listens to the church and ignores the bible, because he cannot read. Here Paul addressess the Christians at the church of Corinth
"Evil Christian Saints" is an oxymoron. Moron.
There's no such language or inference in the scriptures. Yours is a bigoted and warped understanding of the Word of God.
What's the matter with you? Did a piano fall out of a third floor window onto your head? 🤣
Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: (1 Corinthians 1:1-2 KJV)
They are sanctified,
They are called to be saints
Then just 2 chapters later, he proceeds to tell them that they will be destroyed if they are evil and defile themselves
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. (1 Corinthians 3:17 KJV)
Christians called to be Saints, can live in sin and defile themselves, and they will be destroyed
04 Mar 22
@rajk999 saidI think you're misunderstanding what Paul means.
The moron is the man that listens to the church and ignores the bible, because he cannot read. Here Paul addressess the Christians at the church of Corinth
[i]Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all ...[text shortened]... ristians called to be Saints, can live in sin and defile themselves, and they will be destroyed [/b]
Some Christians do defile themselves. No doubt about it.
What do you think it means that God will destroy the one that defiles the temple?
Did you know that the words "defile" and "destroy" are from the same Greek word?
The same Greek word is also translated as corrupt 4 times, corrupt one's self - once, be corrupt- once, defile - once and destroy- once.
Have you taken verse 15 into consideration? "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."
I think you're hyper-over emphasizing the term "destroy" when the context doesn't support what I think you're inferring it means.
04 Mar 22
@josephw saidLearn to read. Christians who defile themselves will be destroyed. The fact that your church preaches another doctrine has nothing to do with Paul. In many other passages Paul said over and over that Christians who continue with a life of sin will not inherit the Kingdom of God... NOT.
I think you're misunderstanding what Paul means.
Some Christians do defile themselves. No doubt about it.
What do you think it means that God will destroy the one that defiles the temple?
Did you know that the words "defile" and "destroy" are from the same Greek word?
The same Greek word is also translated as corrupt 4 times, corrupt one's self - once, be corrupt- ...[text shortened]... hasizing the term "destroy" when the context doesn't support what I think you're inferring it means.
Verse 15 is about Christians who do nothing. So there are 3 types of Christians
1. The ones who do good works and are rewarded
2. The ones who do nothing and get no reward but are still saved
3. The ones who defile themselves with sin and are destroyed.
Your church doctrine is rubbish.
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04 Mar 22
@rajk999 saidYou are very selective when it comes to quoting the Apostle Paul (not to mention Jesus Christ.)
Learn to read. Christians who defile themselves will be destroyed. The fact that your church preaches another doctrine has nothing to do with Paul. In many other passages Paul said over and over that Christians who continue with a life of sin will not inherit the Kingdom of God... NOT.
Verse 15 is about Christians who do nothing. So there are 3 types of Christians
1. T ...[text shortened]...
3. The ones who defile themselves with sin and are destroyed.
Your church doctrine is rubbish.
How come you never quote these verses from Paul?
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
(Ephesians 2:8-9)
04 Mar 22
@josephw saidWe aren’t too far away, the idea is there, two groups. I haven’t sought to make a meal of your question, but if you do want supporting scriptures am happy to help.
I'm not so much disagreeing with you because I think we sort of see some things differently. Neither of us needs necessarily be wrong, but like you said why generate an ordeal by getting entangled in the quotations of scripture over theological questions ad nauseam. Suffice it to say our individual systematic theological positions may not in all points be the same.
I see, ...[text shortened]... who, what, where and why, IMO, is in the hands of the Almighty. Beyond that I can't be too dogmatic.
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You clearly haven’t worked this out yet,
What is the most striking thing which you say is wrong or not worked
out? The specifics are?
Ie. Your biggest example of confusion or something not worked out is ___________ ?
but posting lots doesn’t meant that you are right, it just means that you try and dominate the conversation and smother anything intelligent anyone else has to say/offer.
No, I am not trying to dominate. I am a careful reader of the Bible. I understand the language of OTHER careful readers of the Bible. And I just try to be CLEAR.
Now on one post it is hard to cover too many matters.
Let others who read along decide. Just spell out for me your specifics.
Some Christians governing while in heaven because they are anointed by spirit?
Others inheriting the earth because of having NOT been anointed by spirit?
Jesus reigning on earth while His co-reigners remain in Heaven ? ?
This doesn't stand up to examination Medelluh, unless you tell me why it does.
I don't ask for anything except your evidence, to consider.
04 Mar 22
@medullah saidNot just waffle ... much of it is blatant false doctrines. The reason for the waffle is the false doctrine. A man who promotes exactly what the bible has only needs to quote the bible and without muh explanation as the bible is pretty clear and speaks for itself. Promoters of false teachings need to substantially explain and justify and connect dots and twist and manipulate, and all that takes a lot of explanation.
@sonship
The multiple pages of flowery waffle that you indulge yourself in, three pages at a time.
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04 Mar 22
@rajk999 saidYou mean like saying only what Jesus Christ said to groups of people counts and not what He said to individuals and small groups?
Not just waffle ... much of it is blatant false doctrines. The reason for the waffle is the false doctrine. A man who promotes exactly what the bible has only needs to quote the bible and without muh explanation as the bible is pretty clear and speaks for itself. Promoters of false teachings need to substantially explain and justify and connect dots and twist and manipulate, and all that takes a lot of explanation.
Or saying Jesus and the Apostle Paul preached the same message except when they didn’t?
Or that Jesus granted the thief on the cross eternal life ‘cause Jesus saw all the good works the thief would have done if the thief hadn’t been caught and so gave the thief a big thumbs-up for all those undone good works?
And like claiming Jesus decides after someone dies whether he or she goes to Heaven or hell when the Holy Bible is clear people can know they’re saved while they are on earth?
Or like saying Jesus forgives only the past sins of a believer but forgives all the sins of atheists and people who reject Him?
Or like saying the New Covenant is the same as the Old Covenant?
Yeah, false teachers and promoters of a false doctrine sure are mixed up!
04 Mar 22
1 edit
@medullah saidI sat under the teaching of dispensationalism for years. There are numerous positions from one extreme to the other. All have some valid points, but none are ever exactly right. I outgrew and moved on.
We aren’t too far away, the idea is there, two groups. I haven’t sought to make a meal of your question, but if you do want supporting scriptures am happy to help.
It, imo, boils down to Jesus Christ ruling the world in Jerusalem for a thousand years with Israel at the center of the nations.
The Church? Traveling at the speed of thought.
I don't have it all nailed down yet, not by a long shot. I'd appreciate all the help I can get!
04 Mar 22
@rajk999 saidWill you explain that again? 🤣
Not just waffle ... much of it is blatant false doctrines. The reason for the waffle is the false doctrine. A man who promotes exactly what the bible has only needs to quote the bible and without muh explanation as the bible is pretty clear and speaks for itself. Promoters of false teachings need to substantially explain and justify and connect dots and twist and manipulate, and all that takes a lot of explanation.